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Voyager There's coffee in this forum!

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Old December 25 2007, 07:15 PM   #16
Cyke101
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Re: What would have improved Voyager?

Actually, I'd just go with 'Holodeck as safe and reliable toy,' not 'Holodeck as plot-of-the-week.'
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Old December 25 2007, 07:22 PM   #17
kobeyashi maru
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Re: What would have improved Voyager?

Year of Hell: the Series.
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Old December 25 2007, 08:15 PM   #18
Anwar
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Re: What would have improved Voyager?

But would that have kept the interest of the casual viewer, which is what UPN wanted? BSG couldn't, and that show is for the die-hard niche fans.
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Old December 25 2007, 10:31 PM   #19
KiraDax
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Re: What would have improved Voyager?

Actually, thinking about it more, it wasn't even so much the stories or the acting or such that made the show fall mostly flat. It was simply the overall background atmosphere. Voyager was just too clean.

The uniforms were rank and file neat. Bulkheads and floors were sparkling whole and unscratched (not to mention the most completely bland color scheme possible). Repairs happened at the snap of a finger (or at least by Janeway's second snap). You never heard complaints about food shortages or berthing crunches, replicator failings, or power conservation blackouts. Nobody missed home for more than five seconds, and everyone got along peachy keen after five minutes.

For a ship lost 70 years from home, life was just too easy.
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Old December 25 2007, 10:36 PM   #20
TMara
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Re: What would have improved Voyager?

They should have made it more an ensemble show and not just about 2 or 3 characters.

They should have tried to do something new with the charaters and not repeated the same stories over and over again (The Doctor and Seven always discovered humanity in their eps, B'Elanna always came to terms with her Klingon side, Tuvok always lost control...)

Their situation (alone in unknown territory, looking for supplies, missing their families back home) should have been more developed. Who missed family anyway? B'Elanna and Tom were estranged from theirs, Chakotay's father was dead, Janeway's as well, Neelix's family was dead, too, so was Seven's, the Doctor didn't have any. Kes' family was probably dead, too. That leaves Harry and Tuvok. And Tuvok wouldn't show he missed them. So we always got the impression they didn't really care too much about going home....

Maria
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Old December 25 2007, 10:58 PM   #21
Orac Zen
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Re: What would have improved Voyager?

Kegek Kringle said:
6th day of XMe$$ said:
UPN not dicking with it.
Exactly. Most of VOY's flaws can be traced back to this problem. Even the fact the creative team that just got DS9 up and running was a little tired and reluctant to create yet another new show can be traced back to the fact UPN demanded a Star Trek show as its flagship property.
Bingo. The staff wanted to make use of the premise and to do a lot of the things people in this thread believe would have made Voyager "better". But UPN wanted a TNG type show with (most importantly) TNG type ratings, and vetoed pretty much everything that would have moved Voyager away from that goal. Had the producers and writers not had their hands tied we'd have had a very different show.
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Old December 25 2007, 11:54 PM   #22
Anwar
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Re: What would have improved Voyager?

KiraDax said:
Actually, thinking about it more, it wasn't even so much the stories or the acting or such that made the show fall mostly flat. It was simply the overall background atmosphere. Voyager was just too clean.

The uniforms were rank and file neat. Bulkheads and floors were sparkling whole and unscratched (not to mention the most completely bland color scheme possible). Repairs happened at the snap of a finger (or at least by Janeway's second snap). You never heard complaints about food shortages or berthing crunches, replicator failings, or power conservation blackouts. Nobody missed home for more than five seconds, and everyone got along peachy keen after five minutes.

For a ship lost 70 years from home, life was just too easy.

Easy answer: Money. UPN didn't want to put up the money needed to redress the sets allt he time to show either the newt tech incorporated, or battle damage.

Also, they didn't want to put up the money of making new VOY ship mdoels to show damage or tech changes (Back then it was more expensive, not as easy as BSG does it).
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Old December 26 2007, 08:33 PM   #23
Warp Coil
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Re: What would have improved Voyager?

There are a lot of things that would have made VOY better. I definitely agree that UPN's intereference played an important role in the direction the series took.

It would have been nice to see the original premise remain in-tact: one little ship all alone, in uncharted territory, with two conflicting crews who are forced to work together for survival. I didn't want to see the Starfleet and Maquis crews working side-by-side, happy as can be, like a big, happy family. Keep the Maquis out of uniform for a good, long while. Maybe even keep some of them in the brig? Have Janeway torn about whether or not to integrate them into the crew, what sort of ranks and jobs and authority they can have, etc. I'd have a LOT of tension between the two crews - more than what we got in the first half of season 1, and it would last a good, long while. Maybe some of the Maquis would consider over-taking the ship, or they'd want to leave Voyager and go off on their own to find a way home?

The character development needed work. I'd like to see more consistently-written characters, with more interesting stories. And please give them something to do! The final seasons really focused on Janeway/Seven/Doctor with a few B'elanna stories thrown in. Harry and Chakotay were seriously under-developed. Every Tuvok story seemed to involve him going crazy. I'd toss the Neelix character out the window, or maybe have him recurring instead of a series regular. Kes was a missed opportunity - I'd have kept her aboard and given her something more interesting to do. The concept of the Ocampan life cycle (live for 7 years and die) could have provided for great story potential near the end of the series.

Continuity would have been nice. More story arcs, more recurring characters and on-going plot threads. Let battle damage from previous episodes carry through to other episodes. As many people have already stated, Voyager was too clean and tidy. There's limited resources out there, and no starbase for the ship to dock at for repairs, so how the hell did everything stay so shiny and new?! I want to see the crew desperate for help because systems are failing, resources are depleted and they don't know what to do. This show should have been about SURVIVAL but this crew had it way too easy.

People love to compare VOY to BSG, and I have to agree that BSG does it all better. Part of what drives me crazy about VOY (and a lot of Trek, in general) is that despite the circumstances, everything feels too safe. It doesn't matter that the ship is out-gunned and all alone and characters' lives are in peril - in Trek, everything always turned out A-Okay. And that gets really boring.
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Old December 26 2007, 08:44 PM   #24
amalie
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Re: What would have improved Voyager?

Some continuity at the least but preferably some sort of arc. Like others have said something on the lines of 'year of hell' stretched out would have been fantastic, I'm sure making it a little less depressing whilst maintaining the gritty elements could have been done.
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Old December 26 2007, 10:04 PM   #25
Guy Gardener
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Re: What would have improved Voyager?

No. no. More depressing. Everyone's puppy had to die.
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Old December 26 2007, 10:08 PM   #26
exodus
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Re: What would have improved Voyager?

Voyager would have improved when everybody stopped expecting it to be just like DS9.
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Old December 27 2007, 03:17 PM   #27
Kenobi
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Re: What would have improved Voyager?

I liked Voyager but I'm still going to answer this because I'm bored. If I were the writer, this would've been the difference:

1. Janeway says, "Fuck you" at least once per episode. This catch-phrase is usually followed by either (1) phaser-fire, or (2) a photon torpedo being launched.
2. Seven of Nine wears a black leather cat-suit. Her hair is long, and is never neatly upped. She invariably engages in amazing displays of "Seven-fu" and routinely kicks ass. Sometimes she wears really cool Gargoyle shades.
3. Chakotay also has long hair, and is far more stoic. He has animal empathy and can command the beasts of earth and sea and sky. He smokes a long-stemmed pipe and speak proverbs of war. He is rumored to devour the hearts of his slain enemies in order to steal their souls.
4. Tom Paris is a rogue gambler and footpad extraordinaire. He is able to infiltrate even the most seemingly impregnable enemy lair. He rides the shadows, from whence he strikes at his foes the killing blow with the surety of a master assassin. He has a patch over one eye, too. The Voyager is saved at least once per season by Paris' gambling skills.
5. Harry Kim grows a beard by season 5.
6. Neelix is quiet and introspective.
7. B'Elaana fights with everyone on the ship in every episode. Occasionally she will take a swing at Janeway, but Janeway is too awesome. With minimal effort, she counters B'Elanna's attack and renders her defenseless. This is usually followed by Janeway's catch-phrase*, and then a swift jab to the nose. B'Elanna is injured, but has learned new-found respect for her commanding officer.
8. The Doctor remains relatively the same.
9. Tuvok routinely defeats everyone with his logic. He never loses control of his emotions.
10. The Voyager slowly changes over the course of the series. While still retaining its basic hull-shape, it becomes more intimidating as the crew salvages new technologies and defenses along the way. Also, it is metallic black in color.
11. Every episode ends on a down note.
12. The Voyager does not reach Earth. In the final episode, Janeway destroys the ship in order to keep a deadly enemy from reaching Earth via Caretaker technology. The final words of the series are Janeway's catch-phrase, followed by a super-massive anti-matter explosion.

*on at least one of these occasions, Janeway would say, "Next time I'll knock your damn head off."
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Old December 27 2007, 04:00 PM   #28
exodus
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Re: What would have improved Voyager?

Kenobi said:
I liked Voyager but I'm still going to answer this because I'm bored. If I were the writer, this would've been the difference:

1. Janeway says, "Fuck you" at least once per episode. This catch-phrase is usually followed by either (1) phaser-fire, or (2) a photon torpedo being launched.
2. Seven of Nine wears a black leather cat-suit. Her hair is long, and is never neatly upped. She invariably engages in amazing displays of "Seven-fu" and routinely kicks ass. Sometimes she wears really cool Gargoyle shades.
3. Chakotay also has long hair, and is far more stoic. He has animal empathy and can command the beasts of earth and sea and sky. He smokes a long-stemmed pipe and speak proverbs of war. He is rumored to devour the hearts of his slain enemies in order to steal their souls.
4. Tom Paris is a rogue gambler and footpad extraordinaire. He is able to infiltrate even the most seemingly impregnable enemy lair. He rides the shadows, from whence he strikes at his foes the killing blow with the surety of a master assassin. He has a patch over one eye, too. The Voyager is saved at least once per season by Paris' gambling skills.
5. Harry Kim grows a beard by season 5.
6. Neelix is quiet and introspective.
7. B'Elaana fights with everyone on the ship in every episode. Occasionally she will take a swing at Janeway, but Janeway is too awesome. With minimal effort, she counters B'Elanna's attack and renders her defenseless. This is usually followed by Janeway's catch-phrase*, and then a swift jab to the nose. B'Elanna is injured, but has learned new-found respect for her commanding officer.
8. The Doctor remains relatively the same.
9. Tuvok routinely defeats everyone with his logic. He never loses control of his emotions.
10. The Voyager slowly changes over the course of the series. While still retaining its basic hull-shape, it becomes more intimidating as the crew salvages new technologies and defenses along the way. Also, it is metallic black in color.
11. Every episode ends on a down note.
12. The Voyager does not reach Earth. In the final episode, Janeway destroys the ship in order to keep a deadly enemy from reaching Earth via Caretaker technology. The final words of the series are Janeway's catch-phrase, followed by a super-massive anti-matter explosion.

*on at least one of these occasions, Janeway would say, "Next time I'll knock your damn head off."
love it!!!!


Voyager meets "Lock, Stock & Two Smoking Barrels".

BTW, I would have made Be'Lanna a whore.
You can't have gun play without the sex.
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Old December 27 2007, 05:06 PM   #29
Smiley
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Re: What would have improved Voyager?

I'm happy to have VOY be TNG in another quadrant with better effects. However, greater consistency from episode to episode and more exotic aliens would have helped.
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Old December 27 2007, 05:46 PM   #30
All Seeing Eye
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Re: What would have improved Voyager?

Make the ship more kickass.
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