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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > Voyager

Voyager There's coffee in this forum!

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Old January 16 2008, 07:09 PM   #196
startrekwatcher
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Re: What would have improved Voyager?

exodus said:
Rewatch TNG. It's equal to Voyager on how many bad or forgettable episodes it had.
I disagree. TNG was far more consistent in quality especially from seasons 3-6. For me, I realize this will be different for others, TNG had established a track record where I knew each week I would most likely get at least a good if not great episode.

And for me even if the episode was iffy the fact that I had come to care for these characters made up for it usually because I just liked seeing them.

TNG had a nice mix of stories and of all the series I'd say TNG produced the best high concept stories, a lot of which were penned by the unfairly maligned Brannon Braga.

I really wanted to enjoy VOY but it did have quality all over the place. Probably the most consistent season in terms of quality was season four.
Voyager is the type of show you pop on if you don't want the heavy intellectual drama of TNG or the dark moody feel of DS9.
I'm not averse to mindless popcorn action as long as it was entertaining but sometimes it wasn't. They assumed throwing action in would make the show work.
It was made for a sci-fi crowd that liked Xena, which was all the rage at the time.
I couldn't stand Xena and thankfully VOY wasn't bad like that show.
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Old January 16 2008, 07:11 PM   #197
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Re: What would have improved Voyager?

I don't think there's any doubt that Star Trek fandom certainly has its 'fringe' element that takes the show far too seriously.

At the end of the day, it's just a show, and anyone who takes it sufficiently serious so as to generate hate mail clearly has a screw loose.
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Old January 16 2008, 07:24 PM   #198
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Re: What would have improved Voyager?

^^desperate times call for desperate measures, I guess.

Voyager tried to be intellectual with high concept stories during the first few seasons and veiwership was still declining. They gave us "Scorpion", with the Borg and action and for a brief moment the viewership increased. They tried every trick in the book to get us to watch while still having to answer to their slave masters at Paramount.

Trek fans feed back was too erratic for them to really understand what type of show Voyager should be. For every 5 fans that liked it, there were 5 more that didn't. Who do you listen too? B&B did the best they could do at the time, they listened to their gut. Did it work? We still don't know because some Trek fans are rediscovering Voyager now and liking it better than before while others still don't.

Voyager was a show that wasn't going to make everybody happy no matter what they did. So the show had little choice in becoming whatever it became.
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Old January 16 2008, 07:30 PM   #199
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Re: What would have improved Voyager?

Angel4576 said:
Picard > Janeway
Riker > Chakotay
Worf > Tuvok
Geordi = Torres
Data > Paris
Troi < Neelix
Crusher < EMH

IMO.
That looks like you're just comparing them with their rank and position.

Still after 7 years of TNG the characters had evolved immensly, we had started to care and like them, I LOVED Data, I want to strangle Neelix.

I will give credit though, Tuvok was very good

If I were to try and compare them which I think is sorta pointless since they aren't made to be compared it would be sorta like this.

Janeway < Picard (they were pretty similar
EMH/7of9/Kes < Data
Neelix < Wesley
Harry < Geordi
B'Elanna < Worf

I can't really compare the others
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Old January 16 2008, 07:31 PM   #200
exodus
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Re: What would have improved Voyager?

Angel4576 said:
I don't think there's any doubt that Star Trek fandom certainly has its 'fringe' element that takes the show far too seriously.

At the end of the day, it's just a show, and anyone who takes it sufficiently serious so as to generate hate mail clearly has a screw loose.
Yes & no.

I think shows like Trek require a certain type of feedback from it's fanbase to see what is working for it & what isn't to some degree. However, it's when that feedback comes in the form of harrassment then we've got a problem.
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Old January 16 2008, 07:42 PM   #201
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Re: What would have improved Voyager?

exodus said:
Voyager tried to be intellectual with high concept stories during the first few seasons and veiwership was still declining.
Yes I would agree the first two seasons, despite some problems, in hindsight were closer to the type of Trek series I would prefer.

At the time I was unaware of how well or how poorly it was performing. I didn't go to the internet. The reason it didn't click for me were the characters just didn't do much for me and the stories were hit or miss. Season three was the point where I actually considered bailing given the poor quality with strings of poor showings like Rise, Favorite Son, Darkling, Coda, Sacred Ground, Blood Fever, The Q and the Grey etc.
They gave us "Scorpion", with the Borg and action and for a brief moment the viewership increased.
I can't speak for others but "Scorpion" offered me some hope that VOY would have a turnaround. By the way Scorpion worked so well for more reasons than just action and Borg. It had some nice character dynamics and forced the crew to face a grim choice.
Voyager was a show that wasn't going to make everybody happy no matter what they did. So the show had little choice in becoming whatever it became.
I disagree. UPN should have left the writers alone. Afterall the whole point of using the same people responsible for TNG's success was to make another Trek series. Problem was they didn't let them.

As for the interne fans they are so extreme and contradictory if UPN listened to them then the suits were idiots.

And no show pleases everyone. I still would argue VOY's issues had nothing to do with lack of conflict or no arcs or not showing damage or a lapse in continuity but the individual quality of writing in the standalones they did do. TOS and TNG both made their bread and butter off of one-off shows. Most people including the casual audience are simply interested in being entertained by what they are watching and to care for the characters.

They are too busy with life to take the time to overanalyze or nitpick a tv program and then immediately run off to their computers to share their two cents with others on the anonymous internet.
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Old January 16 2008, 08:00 PM   #202
exodus
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Re: What would have improved Voyager?

^^I must admit, many of the points you made I do agree with.

Besides Sacred Ground( I love that ep., I like the debate of science vs. faith), the rest you named also almost made me turn Voyager off too. Seven really saved the show for me. She became everything I felt the show lacked.

Seven & Be'Lanna are what kept me tuning in week after week.

UPN couldn't leave the writers alone, they had too much riding on this show. They relied on Voy. & then ENT. to sell merchendise, to promote the Experance and make Star Trek into Star Wars.
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Old January 16 2008, 08:58 PM   #203
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Re: What would have improved Voyager?

exodus said:
Seven really saved the show for me. She became everything I felt the show lacked.


I, erm, see what you mean.....
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Old January 16 2008, 09:23 PM   #204
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Re: What would have improved Voyager?

Ahhhhh, the life of a sex symbol.
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Old January 16 2008, 09:25 PM   #205
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Re: What would have improved Voyager?

^^ Certainly beats Sirtis in a leotard!
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Old January 16 2008, 09:27 PM   #206
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Re: What would have improved Voyager?

Angel4576 said:
^^ Certainly beats Sirtis in a leotard!
We have to choose?
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Old January 16 2008, 10:20 PM   #207
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Re: What would have improved Voyager?

I'm sure there was a CSI where some one was murdered with Citrus in a leotard.
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Old January 16 2008, 11:00 PM   #208
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Re: What would have improved Voyager?

Nothing would have improved Voyager, because Voyager doesn't need to be improved. Just look at the viewership of the Voyager vs DS9 boards. Consistently, more people are still interested in Voyager, whether for good or for bad. And you know why? Because all the conversations that could have been had about DS9 have already been had. DS9 is done. Voyager on the other hand continues to be a source of controversy, a source of intrigue, 7 years later and it still brings out passionate attacks and passionate defenses in people....I remember reading somewhere once that...."It's better to be talked about in a negative light than to not be talked about at all." DS9 is now just a distant if fond memory in many people's mind, whereas Voyager continues to fascinate, even after all this time.
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Old January 16 2008, 11:07 PM   #209
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Re: What would have improved Voyager?

Lol the most active posts are what was wrong or what could have been improved with Voyager, I hardly see that as proof that DS9 which hardly has any similar threads was less interesting
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Old January 16 2008, 11:15 PM   #210
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Re: What would have improved Voyager?

misskim86 said:
Lol the most active posts are what was wrong or what could have been improved with Voyager, I hardly see that as proof that DS9 which hardly has any similar threads was less interesting
You missed the point Eminance is making.

She is saying that because DS9 is so well liked here and agreed that's it's the best Trek show, there isn't much passonate debate going on to talk about it.

However, Voyager is either loved or hated. Because people have such strong views about it, it adds controversy. Controversy creates conversation and debate. The more controversy & debate, the more chance it gives us to talk about Voyager more so than DS9.

Even bad press is good press, because it still gets you noticed.
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