RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 141,590
Posts: 5,515,510
Members: 25,159
Currently online: 652
Newest member: Horizons96

TrekToday headlines

Two New Starships Collection Ships
By: T'Bonz on Dec 26

Captain Kirk’s Boldest Missions
By: T'Bonz on Dec 25

Trek Paper Clips
By: T'Bonz on Dec 24

Sargent Passes
By: T'Bonz on Dec 23

QMx Trek Insignia Badges
By: T'Bonz on Dec 23

And The New Director Of Star Trek 3 Is…
By: T'Bonz on Dec 23

TV Alert: Pine On Tonight Show
By: T'Bonz on Dec 22

Retro Review: The Emperor’s New Cloak
By: Michelle on Dec 20

Star Trek Opera
By: T'Bonz on Dec 19

New Abrams Project
By: T'Bonz on Dec 18


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > The Next Generation

The Next Generation All Good Things come to an end...but not here.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old June 3 2010, 06:26 AM   #1
darkshadow0001
Rear Admiral
 
darkshadow0001's Avatar
 
Location: Indiana
"The Naked Now" James T. Kirk announcement

I'm watching "The Naked Now" episode on WGN America right now, and just watched the part where Picard & Riker read about Kirk's mission in the original "The Naked Time". I was wondering, when this episode originally aired (The Naked Now), did anyone get excited when Picard mentioned Kirk?
darkshadow0001 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 3 2010, 06:52 AM   #2
Timo
Admiral
 
Re: "The Naked Now" James T. Kirk announcement

Well, I appreciated the way the name was dropped. "Kirk... Kirk? Ah, Kirk!" It's as if our favorite hero from the 23rd century wasn't a household name for his 24th century colleagues.

Timo Saloniemi
Timo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 3 2010, 06:20 PM   #3
Christopher
Writer
 
Christopher's Avatar
 
Re: "The Naked Now" James T. Kirk announcement

darkshadow0001 wrote: View Post
I'm watching "The Naked Now" episode on WGN America right now, and just watched the part where Picard & Riker read about Kirk's mission in the original "The Naked Time". I was wondering, when this episode originally aired (The Naked Now), did anyone get excited when Picard mentioned Kirk?
As I recall, a lot of fans and reviewers were upset by the name drop. These days, fandom gets so obsessive about continuity and consistency, but back then, the prevailing reaction was "What's the point of rehashing Star Trek unless they find a way to make it fresh and new?" There was a sentiment that the show needed to establish its own identity as something original rather than just more of the same, so having their first post-pilot episode be an out-and-out remake of a TOS episode, complete with a name-drop of Kirk's Enterprise, was widely seen as a misstep.

At least, that's what I remember reading in the audience reactions at the time. But then, as now, the people who object to something are more vocal than the people who approve of it. So maybe there were people who were excited by the reference. But consider the context. This was a time when the TOS crew was still around in the movies. It had only been a year or so since TVH, a very successful original-cast movie, and they were developing another movie. So it wasn't like the original cast had been gone for a long time or was expected to be going away anytime soon. So I don't think a thrill of excitement would be the most common reaction to a mention of Kirk. It was more like "Come on, we've got plenty of Kirk already, give us something new!"
__________________
Christopher L. Bennett Homepage -- Site update 11/16/14 including annotations for "The Caress of a Butterfly's Wing" and overview for DTI: The Collectors

Written Worlds -- My blog
Christopher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 3 2010, 07:28 PM   #4
darkshadow0001
Rear Admiral
 
darkshadow0001's Avatar
 
Location: Indiana
Re: "The Naked Now" James T. Kirk announcement

Timo wrote: View Post
Well, I appreciated the way the name was dropped. "Kirk... Kirk? Ah, Kirk!" It's as if our favorite hero from the 23rd century wasn't a household name for his 24th century colleagues.

Timo Saloniemi
Well obviously I never heard about a "name drop". What happened? Was there a line that was supposed to be in there that wasn't?
darkshadow0001 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 3 2010, 08:36 PM   #5
milo bloom
Fleet Captain
 
milo bloom's Avatar
 
Location: The varied and beautiful Chicagoland suburbs.
Re: "The Naked Now" James T. Kirk announcement

darkshadow0001 wrote: View Post
Timo wrote: View Post
Well, I appreciated the way the name was dropped. "Kirk... Kirk? Ah, Kirk!" It's as if our favorite hero from the 23rd century wasn't a household name for his 24th century colleagues.

Timo Saloniemi
Well obviously I never heard about a "name drop". What happened? Was there a line that was supposed to be in there that wasn't?
Name-dropping is when you throw out somebody's name in a bid for attention. Like somebody always bragging about how they met some sports star once, or somebody trying to use somebody's name to intimidate the maitre'd at a restaurant.

The problem with name-dropping in TV shows is they can walk a fine line between acknowledging the show's mythology, or just being patronizing (which this particular TNG ep. is a little bit guilty of).
__________________
'Tis a lie! Thy backside is whole and ungobbled, thou ungrateful whelp!
milo bloom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 3 2010, 08:37 PM   #6
sbk1234
Rear Admiral
 
sbk1234's Avatar
 
Location: Los Angeles
Re: "The Naked Now" James T. Kirk announcement

^^^^They access the computer and read about the TOS episode The Naked Time.

Personally, I got a little kick out of it, but I do remember thinking it was too soon. I thought they shouldn't have done it until the 6 or 7 episode, or something like that.
__________________
In all the history of the world, a riot has NEVER broken out at a Sci-Fi convention.

"It's a fucking TV show!" - Gary Lockwood
sbk1234 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 3 2010, 08:46 PM   #7
milo bloom
Fleet Captain
 
milo bloom's Avatar
 
Location: The varied and beautiful Chicagoland suburbs.
Re: "The Naked Now" James T. Kirk announcement

sbk1234 wrote: View Post
^^^^They access the computer and read about the TOS episode The Naked Time.

Personally, I got a little kick out of it, but I do remember thinking it was too soon. I thought they shouldn't have done it until the 6 or 7 episode, or something like that.
Agreed it was too soon, but then you later run into the problem of the TNG crew running into similar situations that the TOS crew ran into, but nobody noticing the similarities. Even TOS had this problem: nobody in the crew noticed that The Motion Picture was a remake of The Changeling, and then in The Voyage Home yet another probe shows up to make trouble, and nobody notices the similarities.

Though there's the possibility that it also happens a bunch of times offscreen and the crew doesn't even notice anymore.

Spock: Jim, I'm detecting yet another deep space probe headed for Earth looking for it's creator, that's the third this month.

Kirk: -yawn- Alright, you know the routine: start the calculations for timewarp, get me my "Arguing with Computers" handbook, and somebody see if we have any hamdingers left, I'm famished.
__________________
'Tis a lie! Thy backside is whole and ungobbled, thou ungrateful whelp!
milo bloom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 3 2010, 09:57 PM   #8
Alrik
Rear Admiral
 
Alrik's Avatar
 
Location: Alrik is on A deck chair, somewhere....
Re: "The Naked Now" James T. Kirk announcement

^

__________________
When I grow up, I want to be just like you. But different.
Alrik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 3 2010, 10:15 PM   #9
Shatnertage
Rear Admiral
 
Shatnertage's Avatar
 
Location: Ward Fowler's gofer.
View Shatnertage's Twitter Profile
Re: "The Naked Now" James T. Kirk announcement

Are we even going to get into the absolute shock and disbelief when they encounter another omniscient/omnipotent being? The running count on those has to be somewhere near a dozen.
__________________
I don't say 'sabotage.' You say 'sabotage.' I say 'sabataage."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nlOTRxt-dIw
Shatnertage is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 3 2010, 11:06 PM   #10
Christopher
Writer
 
Christopher's Avatar
 
Re: "The Naked Now" James T. Kirk announcement

Milo Bloom wrote: View Post
Agreed it was too soon, but then you later run into the problem of the TNG crew running into similar situations that the TOS crew ran into, but nobody noticing the similarities.
I was always particularly frustrated by "Where Silence Has Lease," where they encounter an "area of blackness" that looks uncannily like the "zone of darkness" from "The Immunity Syndrome," but Data says, quite unambiguously, "There is no record of any Federation vessel encountering anything remotely like this."
__________________
Christopher L. Bennett Homepage -- Site update 11/16/14 including annotations for "The Caress of a Butterfly's Wing" and overview for DTI: The Collectors

Written Worlds -- My blog
Christopher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 4 2010, 04:16 AM   #11
HarryM
Fleet Captain
 
HarryM's Avatar
 
Location: Old Earth
Re: "The Naked Now" James T. Kirk announcement

I remember watching it and the line delivery was given in the manner of "some ship named Enterprise captained by someone named James T. Kirk, BFD". Gee, you have the ship in model form in the briefing room, no recognition/enthusiasm/interest?. In "Unification Part 2" Picard seemed all to familiar with Kirk, inconsistent.
HarryM is online now   Reply With Quote
Old June 4 2010, 04:25 AM   #12
Admiral Buzzkill
Fleet Admiral
 
Re: "The Naked Now" James T. Kirk announcement

Treating the TOS crew as "living legends" was one of the most enervating, pandering and annoying aspects of later Treks - another reason I like Abrams's reboot. Take 'em back to when no one knew who the hell they were.
Admiral Buzzkill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 4 2010, 04:53 AM   #13
HarryM
Fleet Captain
 
HarryM's Avatar
 
Location: Old Earth
Re: "The Naked Now" James T. Kirk announcement

Then they might as well have not bothered. If you are name-dropping as a nod to the previous show/fans (which presume they were trying to do in "Naked Now"), then you would want to do some homage (not "pandering"), just changing the delivery of the line to one of some subdued recognition would have sufficed. They are on the Enterprise-D, they would have likely been familiar on some level with past Enterprises, at least the basics, what decades they were in service, who were the CO's, etc.
HarryM is online now   Reply With Quote
Old June 4 2010, 05:42 AM   #14
Ghost of Christmas Past
Captain
 
Ghost of Christmas Past's Avatar
 
Location: in a retrogradeloop
View Ghost of Christmas Past's Twitter Profile
Re: "The Naked Now" James T. Kirk announcement

At the time I enjoyed any and all references to the original crew, although I did think rehashing an entire episode was the slightest bit excessive.

I have to admit, while watching that episode last night it occurred to me that I could get results for "showering with your clothes on" in about three and a half seconds.
__________________
deep space is my dwelling place the stars my destination
Ghost of Christmas Past is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 4 2010, 07:11 AM   #15
Timo
Admiral
 
Re: "The Naked Now" James T. Kirk announcement

Data says, quite unambiguously, "There is no record of any Federation vessel encountering anything remotely like this."
I guess we should be thankful that it was Data delivering lines like this. Our pedantic little tin man might have been thinking "The subspace flux here is in the megacochrane range, while the flux back in stardate 4307.5 was only 7.8x10^5 cochranes - that's such a huge difference. Now what synonyms for 'huge difference' do I have in store that I haven't used recently?"...

Gee, you have the ship in model form in the briefing room, no recognition/enthusiasm/interest?.
The E-D had quite a few ship models lying around. Why should Picard have been interested in the particulars of that aircraft carrier's past missions, or who the pilots of that space shuttle were on the atmospheric test flights? Why should he memorize the past skippers of the E-B?

I doubt anything of that sort is required reading for the COs of real-world naval vessels. The skipper of the frigate USS Clark might know who his ship was named after (no, not that Lewis-and-Clark Clark), but not all those people who commanded the ship's destroyer namesake in WWII, let alone which missions that ship performed. And that'd be only half a century before his time, not a full century.

In "Unification Part 2" Picard seemed all to familiar with Kirk, inconsistent.
How so? That episode comes much later, so Picard could have been reading up on the subject. Especially because the exploits of Kirk and his crew did touch Picard's own career somewhat in the intervening time. Hell, he even mind-melded with Spock's father!

I guess that by 2363, during "The Naked Now", Picard might have known all sorts of trivia about the history of ships named Stargazer. But at that time, he had only been the commander of a ship named Enterprise for a short time, probably with little advance warning.

Timo Saloniemi
Timo is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 05:31 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.