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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > Voyager

Voyager There's coffee in this forum!

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Old October 12 2007, 04:20 AM   #1
I am not Spock
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Episodes which truly demonstrated VOY's potential ?

I actually enjoyed VOY, for the most part. Before I joined this BBS, I had no idea there was so much enmity towards it from fandom. If anything, I preferred it to ENT. VOyager for the most part, at least took itself seriously, and felt like Star Trek.

I do understand where some people's complaints are coming from in retrospect, though. The potential for conflict amongst the crew perhaps wasn't used to its full potential. And an opportunity to show a crew on the edge, trying to survive in a hostile quadrant, cut off from home, and taking any chances they can to get back, wasn't what this show turned out to be, either.

But I think VOY had a very grand sense of adventure, which reminded me of the TOS days. Particularly in later seasons, there were some episodes I consider to be classic Star Trek high concept ideas, like the episode with the planet which evolves at an astronomical rate (Blink of an Eye).

Occassionally, there was an episode which seemed to reflect what the fanbase wanted this show to be like. I refer to episodes like 'Year of Hell', 'Equinox', 'The Void',and 'Living Witness'. Some people think the entire show should have been like the evil versions of the crew seen in 'Living Witness'. I heard once that Year of Hell was supposed to be an arc storyline which was to be played out over the course of a whole season. If so, that would have been awesome.
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Old October 12 2007, 06:07 AM   #2
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Re: Episodes which truly demonstrated VOY's potential ?

There are a lot of episodes in seasons 1 and 2 that sort of push the original concept of Voyager. Unfortunately, most of S1 and 2 is crap.

I think "Timeless" really showed what Voyager had become after the season 3 shake up. If only more of Voyager was written as well as that.
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Old October 12 2007, 06:21 AM   #3
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Re: Episodes which truly demonstrated VOY's potential ?

No episodes demonstrated Voyager's potential - that is, if you believe Voyager had the potential to go its own way in the first place (as I believed for the length of "Caretaker" - but not a minute beyond). Any episode that had any merit whatever could have succeeded just as well (or better) if it had been produced as a TNG episode.
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Old October 12 2007, 06:51 AM   #4
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Re: Episodes which truly demonstrated VOY's potential ?

Parallels was good for the 'conflict between the two crews' storyline, but this was really the last time it touched on it. Learning Curve was a struggle to watch, and the ending is very forced.

Seeing strange new worlds and new cultures is all about what Trek is about, and so episodes like Thirty Days and Blink of an Eye were very good in that respect. The Kazon were poorly thought out, and the constant nature of Voyager on the move really meant the Kazon should've been lost early in the first season, which is a pity as it's the first two seasons which kept Voyager on it's original path (counting the number of torpedoes they had left like in The Cloud, and not throwing them around willy nilly like in Equinox).
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Old October 12 2007, 06:56 AM   #5
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Re: Episodes which truly demonstrated VOY's potential ?

I think the producers at times wanted to explore the potential of VOyager but the suits wouldn't let them. Apparently Berman wanted the Year of Hell to take up all of Season Four. How good would that have been? Apparently Piller wanted the show to be more dark, but Jeri Taylor wanted it to be more lighthearted, which may be why he left.

Episodes like Equinox and Living Witness may be sneaky attempts on the part of the producers to do what they wanted , and not conform to the expectations of the suits. (The suits hate arcs, as it disrupts the potential of attracting casual fans to the show in syndication)

It's the same situation with ENT. Berman wanted to do a more primitive, less sophisticated, take on the Trek universe, but UPN wanted more of the same.
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Old October 12 2007, 08:25 AM   #6
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Re: Episodes which truly demonstrated VOY's potential ?

I don't care so much that VOY strayed from the initial concept. All I ever ask of my TV shows is a good concept that is executed well. In that regard, I love episodes like "Hunters" and "Prey."
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Old October 12 2007, 06:54 PM   #7
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Re: Episodes which truly demonstrated VOY's potential ?

Voyager had immense plot holes and bad continuty ( after seven years in Delta Quadrant and all losses number of crew is same ! 150 ! I am not even considering countless shuttles destroyed , torpedos fired ) BUT some of its individual episodes were quite good. Caretaker was a solid beginning. I watched whole thing like a motion picture. It was that good. As for the Kazon well don't get angry but they were just like the enemies Voyager supposed to have. Capable and resourceful but ( compared to Voyager ) backwards space beggars. Unlike Borg element which was so overused ( and meanwhile lost its edge ) Kazon was able to create a sense of thrill and danger. For that they should be creative. I remember my mouth hang up when Kazon suicide bomber revealed in Basics and after crew marooned on that planet how they would get out of that situation. Unfortunetely after Season 2 producers turned Voyager to supership with invincible crew which constantly battles and wins against bigger enemies with uber ships without any consequence. Still episodes like "Distant Origin" , "Living Witness" , "Equinox" continued to surprise me. But even that ended in Season 6 and 7 when everything in VOY became less and less consistent. How many time travels or paradoxes can you create and reset at the end of every episode ? ( if a show use time travel element too much it means it is about to jump the shark ) How many times a single Intrepid class ship with limited means can thriumph against Borg most unstoppable force in galaxy ?
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Old October 12 2007, 07:17 PM   #8
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Re: Episodes which truly demonstrated VOY's potential ?

I'd say it's limited to two episodes out of the whole series.

The Void, and Think Tank.

In my view these are the only two episodes of the series that have all of the following: tension; suspense; a compelling story idea; fascinating, deep, villain characters; and an ambiance of impending danger & doom.
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Old October 12 2007, 07:28 PM   #9
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Re: Episodes which truly demonstrated VOY's potential ?

Episodes that truly demonstrated Voy's potential were: "Timeless", the 100th episode and "Basics, Parts I and II". "Timeless" showed tension in a way that Voyager might be able to get home, but at a price-Chakotay and Kim had to stay behind in a shuttlecraft. There was tension, suspense, and it left me wondering. As for "Basics", this is without a doubt, one of THE best Voy eps in that Voyager's crew had to survive without their technology and their ship for a few months and weeks. Even though the stupid Kazon morons took their technology away from them, the Voyager crew survived on their own without their technology very well. This episode gave the show potential and it showed good, versus evil as well.
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Old October 12 2007, 11:23 PM   #10
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Re: Episodes which truly demonstrated VOY's potential ?

Year of Hell Pt I & II
Distant Origin
Timeless
Scorpion Pt I

Pretty much my shortlist...with the Year of Hell being a lot more how I expected the show to be...gritty, desperate at times but clinging to hope and making each extra bit of progress that much more sweet.

Distant Origin had a good premise and showed some of the big mysteries that they would encounter.

Timeless just had a poingancy and depth of emotion most of the series lacked for me.

Scorpion Pt I was again, like Year of Hell, the type of Devil's bargaining that I thought might be more common.
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Old October 12 2007, 11:41 PM   #11
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Re: Episodes which truly demonstrated VOY's potential ?

What about Living Witness? It may not have had much to do with VOY's premise, but it was definately a good Trek story.
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Old October 13 2007, 12:42 AM   #12
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Re: Episodes which truly demonstrated VOY's potential ?

Year of Hell said:
Parallels was good for the 'conflict between the two crews' storyline, but this was really the last time it touched on it.
"Parallels" was the one where Worf encountered like 20 gazillion Enterprises. You're thinking of "Deadlock"

Learning Curve was a struggle to watch, and the ending is very forced.
Agreed. It was a sad, pathetic copy of "Lower Decks".

The Kazon were poorly thought out
They used Italian Salad Dressing as hair mousse! WHAT'S NOT TO LOVE?

On topic: really, the only episode I can think of that brought together the concept of what I'd expected the series to be about was "The Void". THAT's what the whole seven seasons should have been about, and because it showed up so goddamn late in the run, its almost tainted because the writers proved they *could* get it right, they just chose not to.
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Old October 13 2007, 01:09 AM   #13
Anwar
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Re: Episodes which truly demonstrated VOY's potential ?

More like "They weren't allowed to". They had an entire season arc plotted out for the first season they had to junk because of UPN interference.
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Old October 13 2007, 02:48 AM   #14
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Re: Episodes which truly demonstrated VOY's potential ?

Source?

And even if that's accurate, what happened during the following six seasons?
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Old October 13 2007, 05:39 AM   #15
Anwar
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Re: Episodes which truly demonstrated VOY's potential ?

Go looking for the Voyager series bible on the net, you'll find it somewhere.

What happened was that Piller left after S2 and anything he had planned got tossed out, then Taylor left since her more lighthearted approach stank. Braga had planned for S4 to be one big arc wherein the ship took lasting damage and all the stuff we would've wanted (It really was "Year of Hell" as a year) but was overruled by UPN.

Then Braga put Biller in charge so he and Berman could go work on ENT, and Biller must not have cared all that much since he wrote "Endgame".

Basically, the good writers had their ideas suppressed, and the Producers kept getting replaced resulting in series schizophrenia.
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