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Old June 14 2015, 10:58 AM   #1
Coco Pops 1967
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What do you think of Data Retention?

Well that's what our govt. is calling it. What do you think of the idea of govt. having every ISP store all incoming and outgoing metadata from people's online communications so that they can later trawl through it?

I think the UK has similar things in proposal stage or enacted into law, and of course the US has had things like this for a while now already.

My thoughts?

It goes against the principles of democracy and a free society, well as far as I view it. Not happy it's being done but what can you do, this seems to be the way the west wants to go now..
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Old June 14 2015, 09:28 PM   #2
J. Allen
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Re: What do you think of Data Retention?

Coco Pops 1967 wrote: View Post
Well that's what our govt. is calling it. What do you think of the idea of govt. having every ISP store all incoming and outgoing metadata from people's online communications so that they can later trawl through it?

I think the UK has similar things in proposal stage or enacted into law, and of course the US has had things like this for a while now already.

My thoughts?

It goes against the principles of democracy and a free society, well as far as I view it. Not happy it's being done but what can you do, this seems to be the way the west wants to go now..
I think most people who know they are being watched won't behave in the manner befitting a free society. Instead, they'll be too afraid to speak their mind, or voice their concerns, for fear of future retribution.
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Old June 14 2015, 09:54 PM   #3
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Re: What do you think of Data Retention?

Orwell got it wrong though. The problem isn't one great big brother, but a whole lot of nosy little ones. The private companies have always had this for billing practices, marketing, etc.

Now me--I've never bought a cell phone, and only use a library at a computer. The nearby Dog Racing track allowed free computer acess--and who knows what filth is on them. Something like that are what terrorists use.

One other thing to remember. When the second amendment was enacted, people didn't have the arms nuts use to shoot up schools. Then--the fourth amendment--which I take to mean "don't kick my door down"--was about slowing down lynch mobs until the most thoughtful person in authority could make a warrant.

Now, an argument can be made that things do need to be sped up.

It sounds nice to say "you need a warrant first before you look at this data."
But how do you know who needs a warrant? Have a blindfolded agent hold a dousing plumb bob over the yellow pages?

Sadly, one of the best ways to get guns off the street is stop and frisk, since we don't have gun-detecting tricorders yet. We say it is wrong to profile--and yet that is how the murderer of Medger Evers was brought to justice. You don't look equally--you look for every redneck with a rebel flag and go after them.

The idea is that maybe 2000 people--or more--may be saying the word "bomb" right now. A computer looks for other words in context--and understands that 1998 of them are talking about a souped up car or a bad movie, where two of them also use the word "plant"

That is where the warrant comes in. Spy craft isn't so much who to look at, but who to ignore. Without it--we are actually all suspects evenly. A net lets out more water than it takes in after all.

That's the idea at least.

Hugh Downs once called the internet a street. Cops use their eyes to see what is going on in public--no warrant needed.

One could make the case that--if you had your own private lines and computers, power--your own architecture--then they need a warrant--and since this all started as the ARPANET anyway, this could all be a case of "you take the kings money, you march to his drumbeat."

Scary, I know.

Data retention isn't too far off the mark. Look at the NSA's bridge
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/...ks-enterprise/
http://www.gq.com/blogs/the-feed/201...nterprise.html
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Old June 15 2015, 12:58 AM   #4
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Re: What do you think of Data Retention?

But are you really "being watched" if they can't actually monitor what you say? (Which is true.) They may know who you talked to, and when, but if they don't know WHAT, then that's something, at least.
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Old June 15 2015, 01:43 AM   #5
J. Allen
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Re: What do you think of Data Retention?

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
But are you really "being watched" if they can't actually monitor what you say? (Which is true.) They may know who you talked to, and when, but if they don't know WHAT, then that's something, at least.
Everything you say, everywhere you go on the internet, every phone call you make, every text message you send, is recorded, sorted, and stored indefinitely.
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Old June 15 2015, 02:30 AM   #6
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Re: What do you think of Data Retention?

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
But are you really "being watched" if they can't actually monitor what you say? (Which is true.) They may know who you talked to, and when, but if they don't know WHAT, then that's something, at least.
Not sure where you got this idea. How do you think voice over IP works anyway?

Every phone call you make is turned into data packets that can easily be copied and reassembled into conversations.
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Old June 15 2015, 02:43 AM   #7
Robert Maxwell
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Re: What do you think of Data Retention?

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
But are you really "being watched" if they can't actually monitor what you say? (Which is true.) They may know who you talked to, and when, but if they don't know WHAT, then that's something, at least.
You're talking about cell phone metadata.

The NSA is collecting much, much more than that.

In any case, at issue is whether ISPs should be legally required to retain customer usage records for a significant length of time just in case the authorities (FBI, etc.) have need of it later.

Such things were never required of phone companies--as far as I know, phone companies have never been required to (for instance) record every single conversation held on their networks.

But that is essentially what the government would like to happen with Internet services.
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Old June 15 2015, 05:11 AM   #8
Coco Pops 1967
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Re: What do you think of Data Retention?

Robert Maxwell wrote: View Post
Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
But are you really "being watched" if they can't actually monitor what you say? (Which is true.) They may know who you talked to, and when, but if they don't know WHAT, then that's something, at least.
You're talking about cell phone metadata.

The NSA is collecting much, much more than that.

In any case, at issue is whether ISPs should be legally required to retain customer usage records for a significant length of time just in case the authorities (FBI, etc.) have need of it later.

Such things were never required of phone companies--as far as I know, phone companies have never been required to (for instance) record every single conversation held on their networks.

But that is essentially what the government would like to happen with Internet services.

Well in Australia the proposed legislation is 2 years for phone, internet, and other non specified metadata. And both sides of the house seem to feel this will be OK.
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