RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 140,223
Posts: 5,438,058
Members: 24,957
Currently online: 522
Newest member: zanejc

TrekToday headlines

Cumberbatch In Wax
By: T'Bonz on Oct 24

Trek Screenwriter Washington D.C. Appearance
By: T'Bonz on Oct 23

Two Official Starships Collection Ships
By: T'Bonz on Oct 22

Pine In New Skit
By: T'Bonz on Oct 21

Stewart In Holiday Film
By: T'Bonz on Oct 21

The Red Shirt Diaries #8
By: T'Bonz on Oct 20

IDW Publishing January Comics
By: T'Bonz on Oct 20

Retro Review: Chrysalis
By: Michelle on Oct 18

The Next Generation Season Seven Blu-ray Details
By: T'Bonz on Oct 17

CBS Launches Streaming Service
By: T'Bonz on Oct 17


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old July 4 2014, 01:50 AM   #1
Khan 2.0
Captain
 
Khan 2.0's Avatar
 
Location: earth...but when?...spock?
your ideas for Khan before STID?

this is what I wrote on another board back in 2011 when no one really knew what was going on with Khan (back when it was rumoured the villain may or may not be Khan)

see how it faired against what eventually happened (better/worse)

another Federation vessel (Reliant) led by Captain Matt Decker (stephen Collins) finds the botany bay and gets totally POWNED by Khan who kills everyone and steals the ship (basically what wouldve happened in Space Seed had Khan not picked on Captain Kirk - and obviously what did happen in The Wrath of Khan)

Khans federation ship venters into klingon space and is attacked by klingons scout ships, Khan destroys them and captures a klingon BOP which he then comendeers (shades of Star Trek III and the 'Enterprise' augments episodes) and then uses it to attack Federation ships/colonies - inciting a war between the federation and the klingon empire (kind of like Star Trek VI in that respect as well as the 'Enterprise' augments 3 parter)..his ultimate aim to have them wipe each other out so he becomes ruler of the galaxy. (lots of talk about destiny, how they fled earth for this purpose etc)

Kirk and crew are given the task of sorting it all out against a back drop of epic space battles (Federation ships vs klingon cruisers and BOPs, Enterprise vs Reliant etc), possibly include some Genesis/red matter style mcguffin, intrigue/ mystery/twilight zone eeriness, discovering who khan is, subtle hints that this has all happened before and differently (possible Nimoy cameo) - eventually revealing to the Klingon High Command that Khan is behind it, ends with Kirk and Khan finally confronting each other and engaging in an epic fight, Khan eventually marooned somewhere (not killed)

so itd be kind of 2 villains like in The Dark Knight - Khan who is a nutjob psycho causing a heap of trouble (joker) and Klingons who arent that aggressive to the Federation at the start but due to khan stirring s**t up become a really formidable enemy (Harvey Dent)

all plays out differently to Space Seed and TWOK (but with the odd similarity/homage) - no Khan wanting revenge against kirk etc so it wouldnt really be another khan like villian out for revenge (which is what Nero was), no Genesis, maybe throw Carol Marcus in there as Kirks love interest. Familier klingons like Kor, Kolath, Kang, Kruge, etc. Have the ‘No Country For Old Men’ bad guy as Khan. Plus get some A list stars to boost popularity and box office overseas - Arnie as the Klingon Emperor? Harrison Ford as the head of starfleet? Russel Crowe as Kruge? Reese Witherspoon as Carol Marcus?

regarding Khans origins - maybe have a flash back scene or even a prologue showing him created/Eugenics wars in the 1990s - interesting dilema of how to handel the 1990s issue with canon etc - maybe just mention it but not be time specific...i.e. it happened sometime in earths past and let the (non trekkie) audience assume its sometime in the 21st century (post 2012) but have nothing to suggest it wasnt the 1990s (so as not to upset us fans whod scream 'CANON VIOLATION!')…like in the Enterprise Augments 3 parter (even Khan is mentioned) but no mention of the actual year……or as in the Greg Cox books have Khan and TEW as having happened discreetly (as we know the novels do sometimes influence on screen canon). Could probably delve into the origins of the klingons too (as theit origins havent really been touched upon in any series) also the Klingons could find out the DNA that caused their race’s mutation is the same DNA in Khan and his people (see 'Enterprise' season 4) therefore causing further friction (funnily enough early reports about The Wrath of Khan erroneously said Khan was leader of the klingons....plus in Trek II khan mentions the old klingon proverb...maybe that was a prelude to a tantalising glimpse into another reality where he is their leader or adversary?)

and to those who say “meh no Khan as its been done already/it lacks originality/go with something totally new etc’..well then why bother having Kirk and Spock etc in the new films either? – dosnt that show a lack of originality? – the star trek universe is a big place, surely they couldve/shouldve gone with an all new crew on a new ship….

Wrath Of Khan is the most popular, enduring ST movie of them all. the template that most of the other movies followed so itd make sense to capitalise on Trek 09s success with the most recognisable/popular villain for the sequel, done a new and different way - like TDK did with the joker or Sherlock 2 with Moriarty, or ST FC with the borg - ST09 was sort of taking its cue from the Batman reboot(set up main character(s) with not so well known villain so no overshadow the main characters introduction) so id expect them to follow doing similar stuff with the sequel (I.e. hit everyone with the most well known villain for the sequel - in the ST09 dvd commentary they even said there was a Botany Bay ending discussed - which wudve been very sim to the joker card in BB. It showed Khan was on their minds anyway). Why bother saving Khan for a 3rd or 4th when if the 2nd isn’t that great - dosnt engage audience due to weak villain etc there might not even BE a 3rd or 4th. Also Khan hasn’t been exactly overused - 1 episode and 1 movie - and it cant be the madman TWOK version of Khan out for revenge anyway (which is pretty much what Nero was)

i guess they could do klingons only for star trek ‘2' and set Khan up for the villain for Star Trek ‘3' (something similar to the way the joker was set up at the end of Batman Begins) but itd be much better if the combined them into one movie and focus on another classic villain for the 3rd film in 2015 (e.g. the borg )

Last edited by Khan 2.0; July 4 2014 at 02:02 AM.
Khan 2.0 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 4 2014, 09:49 AM   #2
F. King Daniel
Admiral
 
F. King Daniel's Avatar
 
Location: King Daniel Into Darkness
Re: your ideas for Khan before STID?

I remember speculating that in the movie, Khan would have been found and revived by Klingons not long after the Kelvin was destroyed, and by 2258 he was secretly ruling the Klingon Empire.

I was impressed that ID managed to stay true to Khan's origin and mythos and yet tell a story completely different to both Space Seed and Wrath of Khan. As I kept saying prior to the movie's release, he's a character not a story.
__________________
Star Trek Imponderables, fun mashups of Trek's biggest continuity errors! Ep1, Ep2 and Ep3
F. King Daniel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 4 2014, 11:24 AM   #3
Mytran
Fleet Captain
 
Mytran's Avatar
 
Location: North Wales
Re: your ideas for Khan before STID?

What I like in that speculation is that Khan has new motivation (fulfil my destiny!) that is not based on revenge. It is rightly pointed out that this character motive was already explored in Star Trek II AND Star Trek (2009) so why go over old ground?

TBH, revenge is done a lot in movies these days and formed a fairly major part of the last FOUR Trek films. Let's hope we see something original with the next one.
Mytran is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 4 2014, 12:04 PM   #4
ChristopherPike
Rear Admiral
 
ChristopherPike's Avatar
 
Re: your ideas for Khan before STID?

I pretty much predicted the rogue element within Starfleet, but I wanted to elevate another one-shot or even literary character instead. I absolutely didn't want to go over Khan again. My ideas all revolved around Robert April throwing in his lot with some Andorian mercenaries or have Garth of Izar be the warmonger. Either of which would've been the senior figure Christopher Pike served with, and who would no doubt remove him from the scene, as Kirk's "Obi-Wan". Forcing the young Captain to go toe-to-toe with his mentor's mentor.
__________________
STAR TREK: ENTERPRISE Season 5 on Netflix Facebook page
ChristopherPike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 4 2014, 06:50 PM   #5
austen_pierce
Captain
 
austen_pierce's Avatar
 
Location: Virginia Beach, VA
Re: your ideas for Khan before STID?

Love the mashup approach described in that flashback. Glad they didn't go that direction though. My only thoughts about Khan in JJ Trek was that they would need to cast very carefully as the role had some very big shoes to fill. I had trouble picturing anyone besides RM playing Khan.
__________________
"I'm not the commander" - Tim Allen
austen_pierce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 4 2014, 11:11 PM   #6
Capt. Ben Sisko
Commander
 
Location: Huntsville, AL
Re: your ideas for Khan before STID?

I've always felt that STID would have worked just fine without Khan, but rather one of his Lieutenants. When the movie ended with the shot of the cryotubes, that's when we should have seen Khan. From that perspective, now you have a proper setup in a future movie to do a Wrath of Khan. If a newbie came to STID, there was no way for anyone watching to even get the significance of Khan. Heck, the guy wasn't even built up to some feared thing before his "reveal".
__________________
"So long, and thanks for all the fish!"
Capt. Ben Sisko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 5 2014, 02:15 AM   #7
austen_pierce
Captain
 
austen_pierce's Avatar
 
Location: Virginia Beach, VA
Re: your ideas for Khan before STID?

Yes! The Khan reveal (to Kirk) in TWOK had both TOS Space Seed and events in the film seen by us and others (but not Kirk) all building up to that one moment when Kirk stands incredulous and says in barely more than a whisper.... "Khan"

Priceless.

STID didn't give us this. We got Cumberbatch saying "My name is Khan". Very dramaticly, but utterly meaningless in the context of the two new movies. Zero had been done to prepare general audiences for why that meant a hill of beans.
__________________
"I'm not the commander" - Tim Allen
austen_pierce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 5 2014, 03:18 AM   #8
Shamrock Bones
Agent Richard07
 
Re: your ideas for Khan before STID?

All I know is that I wanted Naveen Andrews to play the part even though I knew it would never happen.
Shamrock Bones is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 5 2014, 03:29 AM   #9
Geoff Peterson
Fleet Admiral
 
Geoff Peterson's Avatar
 
Location: 20 feet from an outlet
Re: your ideas for Khan before STID?

In an homage to STV, a Klingon ship spots the Botany Bay and uses it as target practice. Khan and his crew are blown to space dust.
__________________
Nerys Myk
Geoff Peterson is online now   Reply With Quote
Old July 5 2014, 10:14 PM   #10
YellowSubmarine
Rear Admiral
 
YellowSubmarine's Avatar
 
Re: your ideas for Khan before STID?

King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
I remember speculating that in the movie, Khan would have been found and revived by Klingons not long after the Kelvin was destroyed, and by 2258 he was secretly ruling the Klingon Empire.
And in a parallel universe, he floated into Romulan space and became Shinzon.
__________________
R.I.P. Cadet James T. Kirk (-1651)
YellowSubmarine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 5 2014, 11:46 PM   #11
C.E. Evans
Vice Admiral
 
C.E. Evans's Avatar
 
Location: Saint Louis (aka Defiance)
Re: your ideas for Khan before STID?

My ideas:
  • No Khan
  • No homages to "Space Seed" or TWOK
  • No Section 31
  • No Spock Prime
__________________
"Everybody wants to rule the world..."
C.E. Evans is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 6 2014, 01:47 PM   #12
austen_pierce
Captain
 
austen_pierce's Avatar
 
Location: Virginia Beach, VA
Re: your ideas for Khan before STID?

YellowSubmarine wrote: View Post
King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
I remember speculating that in the movie, Khan would have been found and revived by Klingons not long after the Kelvin was destroyed, and by 2258 he was secretly ruling the Klingon Empire.
And in a parallel universe, he floated into Romulan space and became Shinzon.
ShinzKhan
__________________
"I'm not the commander" - Tim Allen
austen_pierce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 7 2014, 03:02 PM   #13
teacock
Admiral
 
teacock's Avatar
 
Location: teacake
Re: your ideas for Khan before STID?

I soooo wanted the villain to be Garth of Izar.

RIGHT UP until he said "my name is Khan" I thought it was likely someone else, which in retrospect is astonishingly dense
__________________

"Damnit Spock. God damnit!" Kirk ST:V
■ ■ ■
Janeway does Melbourne
teacock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 7 2014, 05:37 PM   #14
ChristopherPike
Rear Admiral
 
ChristopherPike's Avatar
 
Re: your ideas for Khan before STID?

teacake wrote: View Post
RIGHT UP until he said "my name is Khan" I thought it was likely someone else, which in retrospect is astonishingly dense
You and me both. Based on prior recasting decisions, it didn't seem conceivable that BC could be playing that role.
__________________
STAR TREK: ENTERPRISE Season 5 on Netflix Facebook page
ChristopherPike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 8 2014, 08:02 PM   #15
Set Harth
Rear Admiral
 
Set Harth's Avatar
 
Location: Police State
Re: your ideas for Khan before STID?

teacake wrote: View Post
RIGHT UP until he said "my name is Khan" I thought it was likely someone else, which in retrospect is astonishingly dense
Not really. He had displayed no Khan-specific qualities by that point.
__________________
Thank you very much for your concern, sir, but he does not need your religion, he has science and socialism and birthdays.
Set Harth is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 04:22 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.