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Old February 1 2012, 06:04 AM   #76
Wingsley
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Re: Refit Dreadnought.... Question?

I'll throw in another of my own tech notions from 20 years ago to further complicate the picture. I used to participate in a postal-mail-based fandom tech- and art-based roundtable back before the internet was available for the masses. (Imagine that!)

The rounded Federation nacelles on the TOS era (which fandom since labeled PB-32 "circumfirential" warp drive) was the "original", basic subspace warp technology that any FTL spacefaring civilization in the TOS Universe would be expected to use. In my TOS-derived "worldview" that I submitted to the roundtable, this classic warp technology used a single set of coils in each of the ship's two warp nacelles to form the warp-field, enabling "third-power" FTL velocities per warp factor.

But the Klingons developed a more elaborate technology, using rectangular nacelles with smaller, more compact coils arranged in two sets per nacelle. What fannon called "linear warp drive" arose from a crude Klingon attempt to get two sets of warp fields to intersect on the axis of motion, producing "fourth power" FTL velocities. The Federation saw the strategic potential and tried in haste to catch up with the Klingons, and ultimately both powers perfected linear warp drive. So when the refit Enterprise finally got over its wormhole problems and get underway at Warp 7, Linear Warp 7 would be seven times faster than the older single-subspace Warp 7 seen in TOS. (This also explains Picard's four-nacelle Stargazer, if we assume that each pod has only one set of coils.)

Transwarp was attempted with Excelsior, trying to use three sets of coils per nacelle to produce a "fifth-power" stardrive, but balancing the three sets of coils proved to be beyond Federation engineering abilities. So Excelsior wound up being just a newer, improved generation of super-heavy cruiser with "fourth power" linear warp drive.

The mathematics of it would be that even though a TOS-era Connie could strain itself to sprint at Warp 8 and risk explosion to go Warp 14.1, a linear-warp-driven refit of the same ship could cruise on by at Linear Warp 5 or sprint at Warp 7.3.

So the technology in the nacelles, borrowed from the Klingons, was the real "arms race" in the TMP era. The key was getting more FTL speed per warp factor, rather than more nacelles for higher warp speeds.
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Last edited by Wingsley; February 1 2012 at 09:50 PM.
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Old February 1 2012, 02:11 PM   #77
Forbin
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Re: Refit Dreadnought.... Question?

Clearly, I haven't obsessed on this enough.
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Old February 1 2012, 03:08 PM   #78
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Re: Refit Dreadnought.... Question?

Wingsley wrote: View Post
(Awesome entertaining fanon.)
Awesome, and entertaining. Great ideas.
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Old February 4 2012, 09:09 PM   #79
publiusr
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Re: Refit Dreadnought.... Question?

JES wrote: View Post
Agreed. I think she looks fugly, especially with not all eight sides at least being even. She is just an example of why it is a bad idea to make the all of the bow sides of a saucer flat instead, especially if the front is flat. If not for the fact that the saucer wasn't actually a saucer, she might not look bad, but all of those flat faces ruins it for me!
The artist who called himself justicar did some toolkits with a flatter version of the octagonal saucer that seemed more streamlined. Instead of having the flat face forward, having a pointy end leading would also round that Diane Carey design out more. Having a photon torpedo pay at each facet might not be a bad thing--perfect for firing arcs in games.

Now Aridas version was just the TMP saucer on a Balson class secondary hull--a bit longer than the standard probert secondary hull. A nice side view of the Balson secondary hull with nacelles omitted for clarity would be nice. I've seen those on toolkits but Aridas version is a bit less flat on the bottom.
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Old February 5 2012, 03:46 PM   #80
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Re: Refit Dreadnought.... Question?

having a pointy end leading
Actually, Diane Carey herself is explicit that the ship has a hexagonal, not octagonal primary hull (p.77 in my 1986 print). Which means that the cover artwork necessarily establishes a pointed bow instead of a flat one!

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Old February 6 2012, 01:41 AM   #81
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Re: Refit Dreadnought.... Question?

publiusr wrote: View Post
JES wrote: View Post
Agreed. I think she looks fugly, especially with not all eight sides at least being even. She is just an example of why it is a bad idea to make the all of the bow sides of a saucer flat instead, especially if the front is flat. If not for the fact that the saucer wasn't actually a saucer, she might not look bad, but all of those flat faces ruins it for me!
The artist who called himself justicar did some toolkits with a flatter version of the octagonal saucer that seemed more streamlined. Instead of having the flat face forward, having a pointy end leading would also round that Diane Carey design out more. Having a photon torpedo pay at each facet might not be a bad thing--perfect for firing arcs in games.

Now Aridas version was just the TMP saucer on a Balson class secondary hull--a bit longer than the standard probert secondary hull. A nice side view of the Balson secondary hull with nacelles omitted for clarity would be nice. I've seen those on toolkits but Aridas version is a bit less flat on the bottom.
Anyone have a copy of his saucers and other custom bits?
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Old February 8 2012, 07:59 AM   #82
Dukhat
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Re: Refit Dreadnought.... Question?

Timo wrote: View Post
Actually, Diane Carey herself is explicit that the ship has a hexagonal, not octagonal primary hull (p.77 in my 1986 print). Which means that the cover artwork necessarily establishes a pointed bow instead of a flat one!
Exactly. Not only does that ASCII-looking artwork make the ship look like crap, it's also not at all accurate. Boris Vallejo's cover artwork is fantastic and modernizes the design from FJ's original.
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Old February 10 2012, 12:43 AM   #83
publiusr
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Re: Refit Dreadnought.... Question?

I like how the nacelles end in a mass of antennas
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Old February 10 2012, 10:41 AM   #84
Timo
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Re: Refit Dreadnought.... Question?

We also have to ponder whether Vallejo's cover art shows the ship intact, or in the guise our heroes first meet her: faking damage with the help of the onboard holographic gadget.

Timo Saloniemi
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Old February 11 2012, 06:56 PM   #85
publiusr
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Re: Refit Dreadnought.... Question?

Kaiser wrote: View Post

Anyone have a copy of his saucers and other custom bits?
You might remember his flatter, wider faceted saucer hulls over at sub-odeon, but the links are broken now.

Misc
http://www.resinilluminati.com/showthread.php?t=6927
http://www.shipschematics.net/startr...t_justicar.jpg
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Old February 11 2012, 08:51 PM   #86
Kaiser
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Re: Refit Dreadnought.... Question?

publiusr wrote: View Post
Kaiser wrote: View Post

Anyone have a copy of his saucers and other custom bits?
You might remember his flatter, wider faceted saucer hulls over at sub-odeon, but the links are broken now.

Misc
http://www.resinilluminati.com/showthread.php?t=6927
http://www.shipschematics.net/startr...t_justicar.jpg
hmm darn dont suppose you saved a copy of those designs and octagonal saucer's ?
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Old February 24 2012, 09:18 PM   #87
publiusr
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Re: Refit Dreadnought.... Question?

This link might not work--or just the images
http://subodeon.proboards.com/index....ay&thread=1591
http://subodeon.proboards.com/index....ad=1244&page=2
http://subodeon.proboards.com/index....ay&thread=1244
http://kavinveldar.deviantart.com/ar...yout-216761989

Interesting
http://www.scifi-meshes.com/forums/s...Things/page10&
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Old February 24 2012, 10:02 PM   #88
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Re: Refit Dreadnought.... Question?

Thanks Now i have Octagonal saucers to use
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Old February 25 2012, 10:05 PM   #89
publiusr
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Re: Refit Dreadnought.... Question?

Now you might want to modify that. The long nose saucer should have that circumference all the way around, so it would be really large. This is where having a scanner would have been nice, in that I would have an added layer under the bridge complex to have photon torpedo tubes on each facet, for good FASA firing arcs.

The dreadnaught nacelles are low, so not in the way of weapons fire, and the thrid nacelle--above them...
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Old March 10 2012, 09:50 PM   #90
publiusr
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Re: Refit Dreadnought.... Question?

Here are some other saucers to use
http://s49.photobucket.com/albums/f2...view=slideshow

Star Stations
http://federationreference.prophpbb....pic822-20.html

Ring stations
http://up-ship.com/blog/?p=13912
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