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Old September 21 2007, 06:14 PM   #31
Griffworks
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Location: Central Arkansas
Re: Refit Dreadnought.... Question?

Cary L. Brown said:
Forbin said:
Thabnks for the plug, Jeff.

Me, I never understood the Ascension class - why make a DN with a secondary hull that's SMALLER than a Conny's? Don't make no sense.
Well, I always took it that the Ascension secondary hull was nothing but engine space and a hangar with a pair of shuttles... no cargo, no living space, no botanical stuff, none of that stuff. Just a pair of engine cores, cooling hardware, controllers, etc... but nothing else.

Basically, the Ascension would be the "stay close to base" version of the Command ship and the Federation(r) would be the "distant deployment" version.

Both are equivalent in combat and C&C capability, but one has longer range and can serve in a few "multi-purpose" roles (due to the cargo space) and one is a bit faster (due to reduced mass).

That's the way I've always seen it at least.
Not to jump on the bandwagon or anything, but that's how I figured it for the Ascension, as well. I was basing that thinking more off of the Strike Cruiser role for the Belknap-class, however. Less flexibility for both of those classes of ship than the refit Constitution- or Avenger/Miranda-class vessels. Minor cargo capacity in the secondary hull, room to stow two shuttlecraft at the most, as well as perhaps have one or two on-deck and ready for short notice deployment.
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Old September 21 2007, 06:22 PM   #32
Griffworks
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Re: Refit Dreadnought.... Question?

aridas sofia said:
You raise an interesting point, because in the TM he calls the larger forward-facing dish the main sensor, and the smaller flanking dishes the deflectors. I got the impression the rings weren't there because the extensive housing that is around them on the heavy cruiser is not apparent, and the deflector function is being handled by those smaller dishes (which clearly weren't on the aft of the hull).
Perhaps those were added to the primary deflector behind the dish due to the size of the Federation-classes hull silhouette? And then technology advanced beyond the need, perhaps? I dunno, just reachin', but enjoyin' the Trek Tech angle it's taken.

Regardless, I always thought that the need for the "sensor dish" was a bit too "retro", even in the early 1970's watching Trek in syndication. In fact, my first 18" 1701 model got the dish knocked off of it and I left it off, thinking it looked better with out it being there.
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Old September 21 2007, 08:44 PM   #33
SonicRanger
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Re: Refit Dreadnought.... Question?

This is the dreadnought to me:

http://www.well.com/~sjroby/lcars/images/TOS/dread1.jpg
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Old September 22 2007, 05:15 AM   #34
Relayer
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Re: Refit Dreadnought.... Question?

I didn't state myself too clearly. The active (as in glowey) deflector assembly from the TMP Connie probably shouldn't be put onto the rear of the 2ndary hull to replace the rear "sensor dish" on the TOS Dreadnought. Some imagination would need to be used for the rear sensor array, IMO.
From what you are suggesting though that the 2 small dishes on the TOS Dreadnought are the deflectors and the large dish is the main forward sensor we'd need to be imaginative at both ends.
Do you think that maybe the lit ring set back and around the outside of the TMP deflector might possibly be the forward sensor array? If so I have a mental picture of how a Dreadnought with the forward shuttle bay might look.
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Old September 22 2007, 07:31 PM   #35
Wingsley
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Re: Refit Dreadnought.... Question?

I never saw the logic of FJ taking the basic Constitution-class starship design, fattening it up, and then moving the hangar bay from the rear of the secondary hull to the front in the Federation class. Looks like an invitation to crash shuttles.

FWIW, the content of TOS always seemed to suggest to me that Kirk's Enterprise *was* a "dreadnought", only they called it a starcruiser.
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Old September 22 2007, 08:06 PM   #36
aridas sofia
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Re: Refit Dreadnought.... Question?

Yes. FWIW I never liked the idea of dreadnoughts, or three-nacelled designs. That might seem like blasphemy, but it explains why most of the DN designs came from Guenther and why I, when pressed to come up with one, just drew a scaled-up heavy frigate as something that seemed to make the most sense.

Interestingly, I was the fan of the one-nacelled designs, which Todd abhorred. Go figure.
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Old September 22 2007, 08:24 PM   #37
137th Gebirg
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Re: Refit Dreadnought.... Question?

aridas sofia said:
Wingsley said:
Turning that whole thing around, has anyone ever drawn a super-heavy Federation starship equipped with only the more widely used two nacelles, but those two engines being larger?
Not with uber-nacelles (though that was a variant, never pictured but it was discussed). A TMP-era blend of my Ariel carrier's saucer with the frigate layout, creating an alternate-architecture dreadnought.

Kirov, from my Starship Recognition Chart. I don't know who did this illustration of the ship, but it is very close to the pencils I used to create the silhouette on that chart. I've altered it a little to make it even closer:


That would be me, Aridas - did it for the SSDB. I always thought it was a cool design. I hope I did it justice.
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Old September 22 2007, 09:05 PM   #38
aridas sofia
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Re: Refit Dreadnought.... Question?

You did a fine job. Thank you. I hope you don't mind me messing with your illustration? I had to get rid of that third nacelle and do a few other little tweaks.
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Old September 23 2007, 04:16 AM   #39
Captain Robert April
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Re: Refit Dreadnought.... Question?

SonicRanger said:
This is the dreadnought to me:

http://www.well.com/~sjroby/lcars/images/TOS/dread1.jpg


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Old September 23 2007, 04:25 AM   #40
KirkTrekModeler
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Re: Refit Dreadnought.... Question?

I don't think we'll be using that design.
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Old September 23 2007, 05:48 AM   #41
Wingsley
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Re: Refit Dreadnought.... Question?

Hey, take that third nacelle off the top, and put another shuttle hangar in the rear of the secondary hull, and you'd have a great ship... maybe they would not have had to build the NX-2000 Excelsior.
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Old September 23 2007, 02:53 PM   #42
Bernard Guignard
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Re: Refit Dreadnought.... Question?

Captain Robert April said:
SonicRanger said:
This is the dreadnought to me:

http://www.well.com/~sjroby/lcars/images/TOS/dread1.jpg



Well if it would have been me I would have made each side of the octaganal hull Equal and put Corner as the bow end of the ship. Every time I look at pocket books cover I see a shuttle bay set in the aft section between those perpendicular lines. we all have our ideas as to how this one should look like from the one elevation view
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Old September 24 2007, 02:20 AM   #43
Unicron
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Re: Refit Dreadnought.... Question?

Yeah, it's based off the badly drawn cover art from Dreadnought!. I actually rather enjoyed the story, but I see no reason to assume the USS Star Empire was not the same ship on the FJ list. It's possible the artwork was modified to avoid any potential legal action. Carey's description of the Saladin class might be the same way.
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Old September 24 2007, 06:03 PM   #44
137th Gebirg
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Re: Refit Dreadnought.... Question?

aridas sofia said:
You did a fine job. Thank you. I hope you don't mind me messing with your illustration? I had to get rid of that third nacelle and do a few other little tweaks.
Heh... It's your design, first and foremost, so you can do whatever you like to it!

I'm just glad I now have a good idea of what it should really look like. I'll update the design in the database with your changes. Thanks much!
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Old September 25 2007, 01:21 PM   #45
Forbin
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Re: Refit Dreadnought.... Question?

Captain Robert April said:
SonicRanger said:
This is the dreadnought to me:

http://www.well.com/~sjroby/lcars/images/TOS/dread1.jpg



It's the USS Stopsign!!
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