The Art of Star Trek: Reanimated - The Sequel

[Ptrope]

KirkTrekModeler said:
I'd love to see these, but my browser will not load your page and my AV software has fits. Any suggestions?

I wish I did - when you say, "Your page," do you mean you can't see the images in this thread? I don't know of anyone else who's having this problem - it may be your security settings are so high that whatever they're filtering out is part of my site's SOP.

Can't say about your AV software; I check my files and haven't had any problems for at least two years.

Sorry, KirkTrekModeler; I wish I could offer more help, but I don't know enough about your situation to be able to help diagnose the problem, especially since you seem to be the only one having it.

[KirkTrekModeler]

I don't know..... I get nothing. I don't see the pictures here and your page just will not load......??????

[ChuckPR]

Ptrope said:
Just thought I'd post a couple new shots, now that I'm starting to find the time to do a bit more modeling again. These are WIPs of the Klingon briefing room, seen in "The Time Trap" in TAS; the general layout of the room is based upon what was seen in the episode, but I'm trying to flesh out the design a bit. There will be considerably more detail when this is done, as there will be the equivalents of Enterprise's tabletop viewer and comm stations, as well as hardware and comm screens on the walls and at the doorways.

[image]http://www.ptrope.com/Star_Trek_Reanimated/images/Klingon_Briefing_Room_002.jpg[/image]
Original scene from episode (Screenshot courtesy TrekCore.com)

[image]http://www.ptrope.com/Star_Trek_Reanimated/images/Klingon_Briefing_Room_011.jpg[/image]

The chairs used are nothing like those in the episode; I designed them with this project in mind, and added a more robust chair on the long edge of the table where I consider the ship's captain would normally sit, in the place of honor.

Standard chair
Captain's chair (removed the arms for the briefing room)

It's hard to see in this shot, but the briefing room has a cathedral ceiling, with a large lighting module hanging directly over the table; the image from the episode gave me the impression that this room was considerably larger and more impressive than Starfleet's utilitarian architecture.

Kewl!!!

I really have learned to like TAS.
I didn't see it when it originally aired, and had only seen bits and pieces in reruns.

But about a year and a half ago I bought a set of the LaserDiscs online along with a LaserDisc player.

I came to really enjoy them.

I'm hoping one day fans will be able to reasonalbly easily create their own episodes via some blend of 3D/Cartoon animation.

Some of the non-photo, yet near-photo 3D art and clips I've seen on the net seem to be less satisfying then actual cartoons though.

Someone suggested once - can't take credit for it myself - that perhaps cartoons tend to cause less problems with immersion

because more realistic 3D animation causes you to snap in and out of your level of "suspension of disbelief"

due to the fact that at so many moments it looks almost real that that

near reality cause one to be distracted.

Whereas while watching a simpler cartoon, after a couple of minutes you have just accepted that you are viewing an artificial universe, and maintain the suspension of disbelief throughout.

To ramble a bit less and perhaps ask you an actual constructive question...

Are there any 3D animation tools that can take a 3D animation and make the characters' interactions appear to have been drawn in 2D?

Essentially allowing one to script the creation of 2D animation?

Not that having a team of artist put together such an animation the traditional hand drawn way might not be better,

such a routine could be a lot less labor intensive though, issues of artistic tradition aside...

[blakbyrd]

ChuckPR said:
I really have learned to like TAS.
I didn't see it when it originally aired, and had only seen bits
and pieces in reruns.

Likewise.

[Ptrope]

The better 3D packages pretty much all have plug-ins, or included settings, that produce good-looking line art from 3D models, complete with cel shading. I've seen these work to great effect on mechanical models, though most of the organic models I've seen still look a bit 'off,' especially when animated (although given that it's an order of magnitude harder to animate organics in 3D, anyway ).

And I agree that when it comes to characters, it's often more believable - or at least less off-putting - when characters are somewhat less realistic than when the modelers strive for ultra-realistic characters. Our minds are too familiar with our species and its abilities and quirks - when something isn't quite right, it stands out like a sore thumb to our minds and pulls us out of the experience.

[ChuckPR]

Ptrope said:
The better 3D packages pretty much all have plug-ins, or included settings, that produce good-looking line art from 3D models, complete with cel shading. I've seen these work to great effect on mechanical models, though most of the organic models I've seen still look a bit 'off,' especially when animated (although given that it's an order of magnitude harder to animate organics in 3D, anyway ).

And I agree that when it comes to characters, it's often more believable - or at least less off-putting - when characters are somewhat less realistic than when the modelers strive for ultra-realistic characters. Our minds are too familiar with our species and its abilities and quirks - when something isn't quite right, it stands out like a sore thumb to our minds and pulls us out of the experience.

Exactly!


So I take it from your first paragraph that as of yet there are no wholely convincing plug-ins to convincingly make the characters less "3D-ish"(for want of a better term) and make organics appear to have been drawn more conventionally.

[CaptainHawk1]

I have to admit something that I never thought I would: TAS is my favorite of all Trek and I had never seen any episodes until I got he boxed set for Christmas last year.

Yes, it's that good and it grew on me in a way that I can't explain.

DS9 will always be my favorite live action and I'll always love all of my other incarnations of Trek (yes, even ENT and VOY) but TAS is in a different league for me and I hope it starts getting some of the recognition it so richly deserves.

No, I'm not kidding and I don't care if anyone thinks I'm weird.

-Shawn

[ChuckPR]

TAS was extremely well done.

What they were able to squeeze into 24 minutes of storytelling was incredible.


And it was done at a time when there was still an excellent pool of writing talent in existence - not to mention the episodes that were done by former TOS writers.

To me, the problems that have always plaqued later Trek's was poor writing, and the fact that a not so good writer got ahold of control of the franchise.

But the problem is not unique to Trek.
Decent writers in Hollywood are few and far between. Which is probably why we are getting so much of these reality shows: No writers required, for the most part.


Maybe it's due to a decline in the quality of our schools - though good writers historically haven't necessarily owed their skills to typical classwork.

Maybe we're starting to see the results of decades worth of anti-intellectualism

and an American popular culture that ridicules people for being smart rather then encouraging and respecting true academic achievment.

The people who wrote for TOS and TAS grew up in an America where children were raised to be competitive. Terms like pride and shame really meant something and people were taught to earn recognition.

Whatever the reasons for the decline in decent writers, you need not apologize nor feel weird for liking TAS.

What those writers were able to do with 24 minutes of storytelling was, and still is - incredible!

[CaptainHawk1]

ChuckPR said:
TAS was extremely well done.

What they were able to squeeze into 24 minutes of storytelling was incredible.


And it was done at a time when there was still an excellent pool of writing talent in existence - not to mention the episodes that were done by former TOS writers.

To me, the problems that have always plaqued later Trek's was poor writing, and the fact that a not so good writer got ahold of control of the franchise.

But the problem is not unique to Trek.
Decent writers in Hollywood are few and far between. Which is probably why we are getting so much of these reality shows: No writers required, for the most part.


Maybe it's due to a decline in the quality of our schools - though good writers historically haven't necessarily owed their skills to typical classwork.

Maybe we're starting to see the results of decades worth of anti-intellectualism

and an American popular culture that ridicules people for being smart rather then encouraging and respecting true academic achievment.

The people who wrote for TOS and TAS grew up in an America where children were raised to be competitive. Terms like pride and shame really meant something and people were taught to earn recognition.

Whatever the reasons for the decline in decent writers, you need not apologize nor feel weird for liking TAS.

What those writers were able to do with 24 minutes of storytelling was, and still is - incredible!

*BUMP*

I think there are a few causes.

First, I think the biggest problem is that back in 1973 there were only 3 networks on TV period. Now we have 5 major networks (What the hell, I'll include the CW in there) and hundreds of cable channels that all offer original programming. The rate of expansion in television has surpassed the rate of expansion of the U.S. population by leaps and bounds and therefore I believe that the talent pool is just spread thin.

The other part of it is the changing attitudes and consumer tastes. For some unknown reason CSI is still one of the most popular shows (and it's got 2 successful spinoffs, no less) and aside from the bogus science, the writing is pure drivel. But that's what the people want, right now so the bar has been lowered. That and the fact that half the shows on TV are reality shows that only require concept fruition and no creative storytelling (I'm not criticizing it, I'm just stating the facts) and the people eat it up (me too, and I admit it). I think the birth of the reality shows is simply a reaction to a limited amount of good writers in Hollywood to keep up with the demand of these hundreds of channels.

So there really isn't much of a call for it right now and Trek's problem over the last 10 years is they've been creating product for a mid 1980's to mid 1990's audience that doesn't translate to this generation and frankly hasn't been compelling enough to hold anyone's attention.

But I digress...

-Shawn

[Ziz]

CaptainHawk1 said:
...half the shows on TV are reality shows that only require concept fruition and no creative storytelling (I'm not criticizing it, I'm just stating the facts) and the people eat it up (me too, and I admit it). I think the birth of the reality shows is simply a reaction to a limited amount of good writers in Hollywood to keep up with the demand of these hundreds of channels.

Saw a comedian once who summed up reality TV in one sentence..."talent has been replaced by willingness".

[Ptrope]

Still trying to find some time to work on the project - 2 weeks until I'm permanently settled back home. Yayy! - but I've been trying to nail down some small details. I found a reasonably decent set of TOS uniforms for Poser, but they were slightly off in the mapping, so instead of dealing with misapplied 'decals' for the insignia, I modeled the badges in Lightwave . So here are a couple test renders; I still need to work on the sleeve braids. Of course, these are neither Kirk nor Rand (despite her obvious hair; plus, Rand never appeared in TAS, afaik). The bridge set is my Poser conversion and remodel of SeanR's excellent Lightwave model.

[Professor Moriarty]

Okay, no one else will say this so I'll say it.

Ptrope, your captain has man boobs.

[Ptrope]

Well, yeah ... but so did Kirk, sometimes

[Kendric2000]

How did the men work if the woman uniforms fit like that? YEEOWZA!

[Professor Moriarty]

Kendric2000 said:
How did the men work if the woman uniforms fit like that? YEEOWZA!

It must have been very cold on the bridge when that yeoman was imaged.

Ptrope said:
Well, yeah ... but so did Kirk, sometimes

Too true! And I apologize; I should have leavened my barb with some honey and started by complimenting you on that bridge--it's one honey of a set! Your conversion and modifications are spot-on, and seanr's original is of course splendiferous.

As for the captain... well, maybe the tunic is just blousing out in an inopportune location...?!