RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 138,963
Posts: 5,391,962
Members: 24,720
Currently online: 642
Newest member: Amywholoveswine

TrekToday headlines

Forbes Cast In Powers
By: T'Bonz on Aug 22

Dorn To Voice Firefly Character
By: T'Bonz on Aug 22

No ALS Ice Bucket For Saldana
By: T'Bonz on Aug 22

Free Star Trek Trexels Game
By: T'Bonz on Aug 22

New Trek-themed Bobble Heads
By: T'Bonz on Aug 21

IDW Publishing November Trek Comic
By: T'Bonz on Aug 20

Pegg/Wright Trilogy In The Works
By: T'Bonz on Aug 20

Star Trek: The Compendium Rebate Details
By: T'Bonz on Aug 20

Gold Key Archives Volume 2
By: T'Bonz on Aug 19

Takei Documentary Wins Award
By: T'Bonz on Aug 19


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > The Next Generation

The Next Generation All Good Things come to an end...but not here.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old August 24 2007, 12:17 AM   #1
Plum
Rear Admiral
 
Plum's Avatar
 
Location: Out on the water...
TNG Remastered? - TNG to HD

So, would some, or more, TNG special effects need to be remastered for HD?

Just curious.
__________________
Samuel T. Cogley said: "Look, every single one of us is going to see Star Trek XI. So let's cut the crap."
Plum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 24 2007, 12:49 AM   #2
Trekker4747
Fleet Admiral
 
Trekker4747's Avatar
 
Location: Kansas City
Re: TNG Remastered? - TNG to HD

Plum said:
So, would some, or more, TNG special effects need to be remastered for HD?

Just curious.
All of them would have to be. The SFX in TNG (like many of its time) were edited on videotape which isn't known for its quality.
__________________
Out of hope.
Trekker4747 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 24 2007, 12:52 AM   #3
Magisterfrodo
Vice Admiral
 
Magisterfrodo's Avatar
 
Location: Waco, TX
Re: TNG Remastered? - TNG to HD

If you're talking about simply remastering them, yes, most would. If you are talking about redoing them with modern technology like they've done with the original series, than it would certainly help many of the episodes, especially the early ones. The first episode where they meet the Ferengi comes to mind. Everything on the planet looked horrible.

The creature in "The Skin of Evil" could also be totally redone.
__________________
"I am as conservative as the Word of God and as liberal as the love of God."
- Tony Campolo
Magisterfrodo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 24 2007, 05:47 AM   #4
Mr. Laser Beam
Fleet Admiral
 
Mr. Laser Beam's Avatar
 
Location: The visitor's bullpen
View Mr. Laser Beam's Twitter Profile
Re: TNG Remastered? - TNG to HD

Plum said:
So, would some, or more, TNG special effects need to be remastered for HD?
ALL of the effects would need to be redone from scratch.

This is because all EFX were done on videotape; the highest resolution possible is 480i. It's simply not possible to show that in HD.

The live action scenes can be shown in HD, because they were shot on film, and the native resolution of film is much higher than even HD. But all the effects would have to be done anew.

This is also true for DS9 and Voyager. (Only ENT is airable in HD 'as is')
__________________
It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shakes, the shakes become a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
Mr. Laser Beam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 24 2007, 09:43 PM   #5
Plum
Rear Admiral
 
Plum's Avatar
 
Location: Out on the water...
Re: TNG Remastered? - TNG to HD

Terrific answers. I remember now that TNG was filmed with video. The details regarding the other shows is appreciated too. Cheers and thanx.
__________________
Samuel T. Cogley said: "Look, every single one of us is going to see Star Trek XI. So let's cut the crap."
Plum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 24 2007, 10:10 PM   #6
AviTrek
Fleet Captain
 
Re: TNG Remastered? - TNG to HD

Plum said:
Terrific answers. I remember now that TNG was filmed with video. The details regarding the other shows is appreciated too. Cheers and thanx.
TNG was filmed on film, only the SFX were done on video and then TNG was edited on video. If TNG had been filmed on video there would be no hope. Right now there is a small hope, it would just be very expensive.
AviTrek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 25 2007, 01:26 AM   #7
Outpost4
Vice Admiral
 
Outpost4's Avatar
 
Location: Upper Mississippi River
Re: TNG Remastered? - TNG to HD

I wouldn't be surprised if some of the F/X were done on 2" Beta tapes. Now that was a stinky format but THE standard for a number of years. It would never stand up to HD.
__________________
I love you.
Outpost4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 25 2007, 04:54 PM   #8
DizzyMan
Lieutenant Commander
 
Location: UK
Re: TNG Remastered? - TNG to HD

Everyone's saying the SFX would need to be re-done because they're 480i — but couldn't they be interpolated up to HD resolution?

Many of the most commonly used effects (such as transporter beams, phaser shots or replicators) probably wouldn't look that bad upscaled, since they weren't sharp, clear images to begin with, they were only misty swirls. Also, all the replicator and transporter effects look really quite nice even by today's standards, and don't need any kind of updating in terms of style.

Having said that, I would really, really love all the SFX to be re-done in HD. I was watching an episode last night and imagining how beautiful the space scenes would look if they were re-done. They could add so much to the episodes.

Space scenes
Could look amazing with a (well done) CGI Enterprise and some nice new phaser effects and better explosions, with some more adventurous new camera angels to give more drama, and with a lot more movement of the ships.

Planets
A lot of the matte planet shots could be greatly improved, if only by cleaning them up, blending them better with the live action, and making the camera movement more natural. (And a touch of animation such as moving water, birds, or little people walking around.)

As for the space shots of planets, they really need to be completely re-done. At the time, they were good. They're still good. But they can do so much better planets these days.

Holodeck
I don't normally believe in adding things that weren't there in the first place, but I would actually really love them to 'modernise' the holodeck effects, so instead of characters just disappearing with a fade, they do that really cool effect that you saw the EMH do in Voyager, where the background is displaced. I adore that effect. (I wouldn't object to the sound effects being 'beefed up' a bit, too). I think they cold possibly make every holodeck effect look a lot better if they used some more modern techniques.

Lighting
By Voyager, they had got so good at holodeck SFX, they were even changing the lighting of the actors as the environment changed around them (a really effective trick). It would be great if they could digitally reproduce this effect. So, when Picard ends the Dixon Hill program, instead of the lighting on him not changing at all, they could match him more with his respective background by having the brightness/colour levels change accordingly, and the effect could look really good.

Windows
I would hope to see a lot more streaking stars out the window instead of the static starfield you normally saw, even thought they were sometimes supposed to be travelling somewhere. I can only really ever remember one shot of streaking stars out a window that also had camera movement (it was in ten-forward). It looked great, and I'd love a lot more of that. I'd also like to see the planet they're obiting out of windows, or seeing the top of the nacelles in the distance from the observation lounge window.

Something they absolutely must not do is get rid of the reflections in the glass. It would be a very cheap way of adding window exteriors (stars and planets), but the apparent lack of glass would also make it look less realistic. Therefore, all the reflections should be kept, and added over any new exterior graphics. This would take quite a bit more work, as they will have to remove stars that overlap outside objects. Although they won't have to remove stars when adding moving/streaking stars, because there are always some static ones in the background anyway.

How 'modern' can they go?
Where remastering TOS, they had to be really careful not to go too far and make it look too mordern (because it was a 60s show and overly modern effects would look out of place). However, with TNG, the series ended only just over 10 years ago and progressed into movies that have only just finished. So I don't think it needs the same kind of careful 'historical preservation' treatment. I think most TNG fans want it to look really good and modern, because to us TNG is a modern show.

For example, if they could make the Borg in season 2 look and sound like they did in First Contact (ie a lot more menacing), I would be all in favour of it. Modifying a show to make it more consistent with what it always strove to be (and ultimately became) is acceptable.

I know some will disagree with me on this, but I think I have the right to my opinion, as I grew up watching TNG and I love it dearly. I am a big fan, so I feel any TNG:R would aimed at people like me. (I can't say the same about TOS because I didn't grow up with that show.)
DizzyMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 26 2007, 04:59 AM   #9
Borjis
Commodore
 
Borjis's Avatar
 
Re: TNG Remastered? - TNG to HD

Outpost4 said:
I wouldn't be surprised if some of the F/X were done on 2" Beta tapes.
They were all recorded to D2 (digital composite) as far as i know. The show was mastered to D2 as well. The restored TOS (aired on sci-fi) was enhancement of D2 masters.
Borjis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 29 2007, 04:12 PM   #10
Mr. Laser Beam
Fleet Admiral
 
Mr. Laser Beam's Avatar
 
Location: The visitor's bullpen
View Mr. Laser Beam's Twitter Profile
Re: TNG Remastered? - TNG to HD

DizzyMan said:
Everyone's saying the SFX would need to be re-done because they're 480i — but couldn't they be interpolated up to HD resolution?
No.
__________________
It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shakes, the shakes become a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
Mr. Laser Beam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 29 2007, 05:17 PM   #11
Noname Given
Vice Admiral
 
Location: None Given
Re: TNG Remastered? - TNG to HD

Babaganoosh said:
DizzyMan said:
Everyone's saying the SFX would need to be re-done because they're 480i — but couldn't they be interpolated up to HD resolution?
No.
Well, actually, Yes - but they would look like shit at 1080p/i HD resolution.
Noname Given is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 30 2007, 03:30 AM   #12
Tomalak
Vice Admiral
 
Tomalak's Avatar
 
Location: Liverpool
View Tomalak's Twitter Profile
Re: TNG Remastered? - TNG to HD

Babaganoosh said:
ALL of the effects would need to be redone from scratch.

This is because all EFX were done on videotape; the highest resolution possible is 480i. It's simply not possible to show that in HD.
Stuff like shields, phasers, forcefields etc would need to be redone, but I understand the model sequences were shot in 35mm.
__________________
She bought her first new car and you hit her with a drunk driver. What, is that supposed to be funny?
Tomalak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 30 2007, 01:05 PM   #13
Squiggy
LORD SHIT SUPREME
 
Squiggy's Avatar
 
Location: Not on your life, my Hindu friend.
View Squiggy's Twitter Profile Send a message via ICQ to Squiggy
Re: TNG Remastered? - TNG to HD

I doubt that model would pass the muster in HD...especially since most episodes used all different scenes from different models of varying detail.
__________________
ENOUGH OF THIS TURGID BASH WANKERY!
Squiggy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 30 2007, 06:51 PM   #14
Tomalak
Vice Admiral
 
Tomalak's Avatar
 
Location: Liverpool
View Tomalak's Twitter Profile
Re: TNG Remastered? - TNG to HD

Yeah, that's probably true. The ILM stuff with the six footer would be alright - it looked wonderful in Generations - but the four footer and some of the ships of the week might not pass muster.
__________________
She bought her first new car and you hit her with a drunk driver. What, is that supposed to be funny?
Tomalak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 30 2007, 10:16 PM   #15
AviTrek
Fleet Captain
 
Re: TNG Remastered? - TNG to HD

Also, all compositing was done at 480i. So unless they upscale the finished shot they would need to rescan the film, upscale the SFX, then recomposit the shot.
AviTrek is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
remastered

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 07:04 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.