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Deep Space Nine What We Left Behind, we will always have here.

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Old June 7 2008, 02:13 PM   #1006
Neroon
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Re: Niners Unite...around Babylon 5! - The Lost Threads

PKTrekGirl wrote: View Post
By the way, gang...I'll not close this one yet, but Neroon, you might want to consider starting a new thread...

Or do we care about threads over 1,000 on the new board?
The old limit is no longer an issue, according to AntonyF. However, if you as moderator here, or if any of the regulars feel so inclined, we could start a new thread. I'm fine either way.
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Old June 7 2008, 11:10 PM   #1007
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Re: Niners Unite...around Babylon 5! - The Lost Threads

As long as there's an appropriate subtitle for the new thread.

I'll be starting the Technomage trilogy this month, so I'll post my responses to that here. I've almost completed reviewing every bit of the canon that makes up Babylon 5. I just have the Technomage trilogy and In The Beginning (which I've seen once, but it was before I started reviewing everything).
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Old June 8 2008, 09:26 PM   #1008
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Re: Niners Unite...around Babylon 5! - The Lost Threads

Well, I found the time to watch In The Beginning on DVD this morning. I rather liked it, as I remembered, although I have a few observations.

First, the fanboy gripes:

--The introduction, with our characters circa 2262 speaking to the camera felt unnecessary. The movie should have started with Londo's 2278 framing sequence.
--I understand it was a matter of scheduling, and money, but the way Sinclair is nowhere to be found until he suddenly appears at the end of the movie in a combination of stock shots from various first season episodes feels off. If anything, he should have a scene where he heads the President's call to battle. And the fighter pilot dialogue, mostly taken from A Sky Full of Stars, doesn't seem to fit with the new (extremely cool looking) special effects.
--In that vein, the old footage and the new footage of Delenn onboard the Gray Council Ship doesn't always match, although most of it does.
--The contrived way in which Sheridan, Dr. Franklin, and G'Kar are all thrust together on a last ditch mission to save Earth, despite the fact that (a) Both G'Kar and Franklin act as if they had never met Sheridan before in early season two and (b) Sheridan hardly seems expendable, as the General says, since he's the only propaganda tool the Earth Alliance has. It would be one thing for him to request to go back to the fight, a la Ira Hayes in WWII, but he's ORDERED to go on what appears to be a suicide mission. And then they manages to meet Delenn, and somehow are let free. It's a good thing they waited to use the triluminary until Sinclair showed up--otherwise they might have never found out about the Minbair souls, and certainly not Valen's soul.

Second, the compliments:

--Londo's framing sequence is wonderful, and makes this, in my opinion, perfect material to watch before Sleeping in Light.
--It's nice to see the General who faces off against Sheridan in Endgame appear again here, in the past sequences.
--It's great to see Londo on Earth as well.
--They do a substantial job making Sheridan look younger with the short hair cut and his performance as an unsure commander. Franklin doesn't look a bit different to me, but I guess there's only so much you can do, and he doesn't have many scenes as it is.
--The music is magnificent. Of course I have the album, and enjoy listening to the final track (The War/The President's Call/etc...).
--The effects are spot on. They really sell the scale of the war.
--It's nice to see more of Dukhat, and Delenn's first meeting with the Vorlons.
--The movie demonstrates the true scale of the Babylon 5 universe in a number of ways. That goes a long way.

Grade: A-

I graded Thirdspace as an A- way back when. I was probably a bit too generous. If I were to go back, I might re-evaluate it as a B+. In the Beginning is by far the best Babylon 5 movie.
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Old June 9 2008, 08:31 AM   #1009
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Re: Niners Unite...around Babylon 5! - The Lost Threads

Here are my thoughts on the last B5 books I've read.

Clark's Law: The prologue is awesome, but the rest of the book never matched it. I give it props for trying something different, and it's got some good stuff for those with station and alien fetishes. The novel does suffer from being written concurrently with such a tightly woven TV show. Several of the characters acted in ways that I felt were out of character for them at that point in time. The events also crossed the line from interesting to something that should have had an effect on the show, such as the attack on Londo.

The Touch of Your Shadow, The Whisper of Your Name, This Title is Too Long for Such a Useless Story: A strange phenomenon causes temporary insanity. The crew barely keeps things together until it passes by. The End. I think Carbon the Harley guy got more interesting dialogue than any main character. I'm still irked that the buildup was basically to a nonresolution, but at least the reading was very quick.
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Old June 9 2008, 10:27 PM   #1010
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Re: Niners Unite...around Babylon 5! - The Lost Threads

Hirogen Alpha wrote: View Post
--The contrived way in which Sheridan, Dr. Franklin, and G'Kar are all thrust together on a last ditch mission to save Earth, despite the fact that (a) Both G'Kar and Franklin act as if they had never met Sheridan before in early season two
They don't, actually. The audience may assume that's what their behavior means the first time around, but there's really nothing to back that up.

We don't see introduction scenes for any of these three characters in the show. The first time Sheridan and G'Kar are seen together is in council; and the first thing we here from Franklin about Sheridan is, "I haven't seen much of him, but what I have seen I like."
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Old June 10 2008, 03:16 AM   #1011
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Re: Niners Unite...around Babylon 5! - The Lost Threads

Lindley wrote: View Post
Hirogen Alpha wrote: View Post
--The contrived way in which Sheridan, Dr. Franklin, and G'Kar are all thrust together on a last ditch mission to save Earth, despite the fact that (a) Both G'Kar and Franklin act as if they had never met Sheridan before in early season two
They don't, actually. The audience may assume that's what their behavior means the first time around, but there's really nothing to back that up.

We don't see introduction scenes for any of these three characters in the show. The first time Sheridan and G'Kar are seen together is in council; and the first thing we here from Franklin about Sheridan is, "I haven't seen much of him, but what I have seen I like."
Franklin's line has always left me with the feeling that it's the first time they've met in season two. And when G'Kar asked Sheridan how he's fitting in a few episodes down the line in season two, the conversation also carries the implication that G'Kar hasn't known Sheridan before he arrived. Neither case is explicitly stated, but that was always my impression. And, having the three characters come together like that is a case of "small universe syndrome" that I don't think was needed. Cut those scenes out of the movie, and I don't think it would be any worse off.

Just my two cents though.
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Old June 11 2008, 12:27 AM   #1012
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Re: Niners Unite...around Babylon 5! - The Lost Threads

[quote=Hirogen Alpha;1725549]
Lindley wrote: View Post

Franklin's line has always left me with the feeling that it's the first time they've met in season two. And when G'Kar asked Sheridan how he's fitting in a few episodes down the line in season two, the conversation also carries the implication that G'Kar hasn't known Sheridan before he arrived. Neither case is explicitly stated, but that was always my impression. And, having the three characters come together like that is a case of "small universe syndrome" that I don't think was needed. Cut those scenes out of the movie, and I don't think it would be any worse off.

Just my two cents though.
Ya know, I have to agree here. It never sat right with me either. I just watched the scene with G'Kar and Sheridan, last night, in "Soul Mates." The bearing between the two of them were of men who weren't overly familiar with one another. Although, I love G'Kar's line, "It's not like you'd suddenly vanish in the middle of the night to some far off Minbari posting. That would be unprecedented in the station's history."
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Old June 11 2008, 12:40 AM   #1013
Anthony Sabre
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Re: Niners Unite...around Babylon 5! - The Lost Threads

Well guys, I think I'm going to take the B5 plunge and buy all 5 seasons next paycheck. It's gotten to the point with DS9 that I can recall intricate plot details for most episodes just by reading the episode name. I need a new sci-fi series bad. I didn't watch BStar and I didn't watch Stargate so those two are on the list as well. I do have one question:

I read an overview for all 5 seasons. They mention something about Shadow world or Shadow War? Is that about the undead? I don't like much of that stuff in my sci-fi.
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Old June 11 2008, 12:51 AM   #1014
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Re: Niners Unite...around Babylon 5! - The Lost Threads

Anthony Sabre wrote: View Post
I read an overview for all 5 seasons. They mention something about Shadow world or Shadow War? Is that about the undead? I don't like much of that stuff in my sci-fi.
Shadow War. No, nothing like that at all, don't worry.

I envy you your first time viewing. Enjoy!

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Old June 11 2008, 03:04 AM   #1015
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Re: Niners Unite...around Babylon 5! - The Lost Threads

No undead monsters in the fantasy sense, at least.

Although you are missing some fantastic programs with that requirement, along with the lame ones you're just as well avoiding.

As for G'Kar's attitude towards Sheridan, it's not like they were the best of friends. They had one mission 10 years before that ended badly and produced no results of consequence. I'm sure Sheridan had passing acquaintances with lots of aliens due to his time in command of Agamemnon.
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Old June 11 2008, 03:50 AM   #1016
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Re: Niners Unite...around Babylon 5! - The Lost Threads

Cool. Decided not wait and ordered it tonight. Kind of afraid I might like it more than DS9.
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Old June 11 2008, 05:22 AM   #1017
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Re: Niners Unite...around Babylon 5! - The Lost Threads

Personally, I like Deep Space Nine more, but Babylon 5 does some things better than Deep Space Nine (some things far, far better). On the other hand, there are some things that it doesn't come close to Deep Space Nine in doing. So... YMMV.

I'm sure we'd all love to know what you think.

And, before everyone says it, don't be deterred by the quality of the first season, but don't skip any of it, either, at least not on your first go.
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Old June 11 2008, 08:18 PM   #1018
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Re: Niners Unite...around Babylon 5! - The Lost Threads

Lindley wrote: View Post

As for G'Kar's attitude towards Sheridan, it's not like they were the best of friends. They had one mission 10 years before that ended badly and produced no results of consequence. I'm sure Sheridan had passing acquaintances with lots of aliens due to his time in command of Agamemnon.
I can see that, but it still seemed to me that JMS was leapfrogging with his retcons much in the same way with Delenn's "love" for Sinclair in the first season. Mira Furlan, in an interview in the defunct Sci-Fi Universe magazine, stated that she played the character as being "in-love with Sinclair." JMS later said that it wasn't love but reverence. Watch the first-season and you'll see that it is very much the former than the latter, which of course had to change with Sheridan coming on board.
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Old June 11 2008, 10:51 PM   #1019
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Re: Niners Unite...around Babylon 5! - The Lost Threads

Anthony Sabre wrote: View Post
Cool. Decided not wait and ordered it tonight. Kind of afraid I might like it more than DS9.
Don't worry about things like that. No matter which series you like more, it's my personal opinion you're on top of the world with both of them.
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Old June 14 2008, 12:36 AM   #1020
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Re: Niners Unite...around Babylon 5! - The Lost Threads

Just finished watching No Compromises.

I was a bit underwhelmed but I'm not surprised. I've felt that way after watching numerous pilots including: Encounter at Farpoint, Emissary, The Caretaker and Serenity. The exceptions being Broken Bow and the first episode of Buffy. But I already know I'm going to keep watching because a couple of the characters peaked my interest.

I want to see how things develop between Captain Lochley and Garibaldi, now that Garibaldi is heading up military intelligence. I'd like to know what side Lochley fought on in the war. I'm curious about PsiCorps and the entire notion of non controlled telepaths being dangerous, directly opposite of how Trek treated them. And I wonder how often Sheridan is going to decide that a matter is "political" just to override Lochley.

But most of all I'm looking forward to a series that isn't confined by canon and the Roddenberry vision of what the future should/will be.

So here I go....
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