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Old January 21 2008, 12:12 AM   #646
Jan
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Re: Niners Unite...around Babylon 5! - The Lost Threads

Sorry, Mal, your post only demonstrates a vast and demonstrable ignorance even if I ignore the apples-to-rutabagas comparison of re-selling a product (the produced episodes) for the third or fourth time with selling new and never before seen material (the script books).

The script books contain far more than just the scripts. In addition, JMS is well known for protecting his copyrights (he's a good friend of Harlan Ellison, after all) so any bootleg versions are likely to be few and hard to find. Even used copies are selling for full price on Ebay (the handful that have shown up) and that's not likely to change after it's no longer possible to buy the set.

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Old January 23 2008, 01:49 AM   #647
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Re: Niners Unite...around Babylon 5! - The Lost Threads

You're right Jan, about the material in the script books, of course, but Mal does make a point with a certain amount of legitimacy. As cool as they are, the books are a bit overpriced. I'm not saying JMS should lower the prices of the books--he's self-publishing and probably barely breaking even on these things. I'm just saying it's a shame that economics has dictated they cost 40 dollars apiece. If they were 20 or 25, I'd be less hesitant to pick them up (I have two right now, volumes 1 and 12), but at the current price (and even the reduced price of 30) they're just a little more than I'm willing to spend on them. In addition, the fact that the books are 39.99, when so many cafepress coupons start offering discounts on orders over 40.00 is a little bit frustrating.

If cafepress ever has a decent coupon again, I'll look into them, though. These books really are fantastic, and I would have them all if money was no object. Alas...

Speaking of books, I've finally finished the third book in the Psi Corp Trilogy.

"Final Reckoning: The Fate of Bester"

This is by far the best book in the series. It's doesn't have to deal with a great mass of telepath backstory, or excessive references to telepaths in the series like the first two books (which are still very good in themselves), and as a result the pacing is spot on throughout. Surprisingly, this book makes you not only empathize with Bester, as the second book does, but it also makes you sympathize with him. I loved it when the series added shades of grey to Bester's character (sadly, it happened far to rarely in my opinion), and this book does wonderful things with the character. It also is an interesting look at Garibaldi and his obsession over Bester's capture.

It also fills in a *few* gaps about the telepath war. We know Lyta dies in the war, and that Bester is somehow responsible for her death (according to Garibaldi, anyway). We know Bester is on the run. Still, I wish we'd get another Lost Tale filling in the story gaps with that.

If I had any objection, it would be that the character of Girard is too interesting for his own good. He reminds me of Frank Black from Millennium (at least, in season one) and would certainly be interesting to explore further, though that would be a story quite different from the norm of Babylon 5. As he is, I'd have preferred him to be in the novel either more to further develop him or less in order to give Garibaldi a bit more to do. But a minor complaint with an otherwise fantastic book.

Grade: A+
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Old January 23 2008, 03:33 AM   #648
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Re: Niners Unite...around Babylon 5! - The Lost Threads

Hirogen Alpha said:
You're right Jan, about the material in the script books, of course, but Mal does make a point with a certain amount of legitimacy.
With respect, Hirogen Alpha, I don't grant any legitimacy to points that include pirating and copyright infringement.

As cool as they are, the books are a bit overpriced. I'm not saying JMS should lower the prices of the books--he's self-publishing and probably barely breaking even on these things. I'm just saying it's a shame that economics has dictated they cost 40 dollars apiece. If they were 20 or 25, I'd be less hesitant to pick them up (I have two right now, volumes 1 and 12), but at the current price (and even the reduced price of 30) they're just a little more than I'm willing to spend on them. In addition, the fact that the books are 39.99, when so many cafepress coupons start offering discounts on orders over 40.00 is a little bit frustrating.
Of course, the Cafepress coupon structure has changed in the last few months. For quite a long time it was simple to find coupons for $5 off $25 or $10 off $50. I doubt if the Scripts Team has any influence on CafePress's promotions.

Yes, the books are expensive, I don't dispute that. My point to Mal was that he misstated what was in the books.

Obviously, I need to dig out the Psi Corps trilogy and reread it since I don't even remember a character named Girard!

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Old January 23 2008, 03:44 AM   #649
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Re: Niners Unite...around Babylon 5! - The Lost Threads

^^
Oh, my comments were solely referring to the price of the books, not any said solution on how to acquire the books illegally. And, again, I don't blame the scripts team for anything. They're doing the best job they can with the resources at hand. It's just the situation which is less than ideal.

If there ever is a better cafe press coupon, btw, you should let us know in this thread. I'm sure there are a few others who are hankering to buy these books but are put off by the price tag.

As for Girard, he's the French inspector who has a knack for putting himself in the killer's mind without any actual telepathic ability. He helps Garibaldi take down Bester at the end, and there's a minute subplot involving an affair he's having.
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Old January 23 2008, 04:14 AM   #650
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Re: Niners Unite...around Babylon 5! - The Lost Threads

^^ So far all I've located are a $5 off $40, a $5 off $50 and a $10 off $75. If anybody's interested in those, let me know. Two of them expire on the 24th.

Thanks, now I remember Girard. As for Lyta's death beding caused by Bester...I suppose that's possible. But it doesn't match with the early drafts of Crusade's 'The Path of Sorrows' unless JMS changed his mind. I'm not sure which came first.

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Old January 23 2008, 04:30 AM   #651
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Re: Niners Unite...around Babylon 5! - The Lost Threads

^^
Well, to be fair, I'm only deriving that plot point from this one line on page 228:

"Her [Lyta's] death was another thing he [Garibaldi] owed Bester for."
Garibaldi could be referring to Bester's role in the telepath war in very general terms. Speaking of which, what does the script you're looking at say about the whole thing?

And thanks for the heads up on the coupons. I've only been able to find the 5 dollar off one at the moment, though.
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Old January 23 2008, 07:12 AM   #652
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Re: Niners Unite...around Babylon 5! - The Lost Threads

Hirogen Alpha said:
"Final Reckoning: The Fate of Bester"

This is by far the best book in the series. It's doesn't have to deal with a great mass of telepath backstory, or excessive references to telepaths in the series like the first two books (which are still very good in themselves), and as a result the pacing is spot on throughout.


funny, i had exactly the opposite reaction. the first book in the trilogy is far and away my favorite. it's not that the other two aren't good too, just that the first book could be a great stand-alone scifi novel, without even taking place in the B5 'verse.

the second and third books, though, have to carry established characters, and as you say, not all of them come out well on paper.


If I had any objection, it would be that the character of Girard is too interesting for his own good. He reminds me of Frank Black from Millennium (at least, in season one) and would certainly be interesting to explore further, though that would be a story quite different from the norm of Babylon 5. As he is, I'd have preferred him to be in the novel either more to further develop him or less in order to give Garibaldi a bit more to do.
Grade: A+
Garibaldi being the prime example of someone who really doesn't shine on paper. i credit (blame?) Jerry-baldy ( ) for this.

the inspector struck me as the Stereotypical French Inspector, but that isn't necessarily a bad thing, as it allows us to focus on Bester.

the Bester story is really amazing, in that it feels exactly like how i always imagined the last days of Adolf Eichmann before the Israelis caught him. like a trapped animal...

anyway, it is still my favorite of the trilogies, though i am really starting to warm up to the technomage trilogy. that's some seriously dark shit. seriously. can you imagine them putting even half of it on TV?!?! no way they show galen calling fire down on himself, or thinking about suicide. that's not exactly stuff for prime-time family viewing...
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Old January 23 2008, 07:49 AM   #653
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Re: Niners Unite...around Babylon 5! - The Lost Threads

Hirogen Alpha said:
Garibaldi could be referring to Bester's role in the telepath war in very general terms. Speaking of which, what does the script you're looking at say about the whole thing?
Almost nothing, really. There's just one scene that was cut due to Pat Tallman not being in that episode. Everything else is pretty much the same as you see on the DVD.

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Old January 23 2008, 11:00 PM   #654
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Re: Niners Unite...around Babylon 5! - The Lost Threads

Jan said:
I'm good. Somebody please remind me, though?

BTW, for those interested:

I just got an email from Jaclyn, Captain of the Scripts Team. She said it was okay for me to let people know that Volume 13 will be available to order on January 23.

Woo-Hoo!! This one's got some *great* episodes!

Jan
I JUST now ordered mine!
:thumbsup:

(anla'shok fa-NA-tic)
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Old January 23 2008, 11:04 PM   #655
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Re: Niners Unite...around Babylon 5! - The Lost Threads

Just a reminder to everyone about the upcoming episode viewing

When: - Saturday, January 26th 7pm EST / 4pm PST

Time: - 7:00 pm - "Passing Through Gethsemane"
8:00 pm - "The Corps Is Mother; the Corps is Father"


May send one of the Brothers Zathras to host.....
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Old January 23 2008, 11:04 PM   #656
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Re: Niners Unite...around Babylon 5! - The Lost Threads

Neroon said:
(anla'shok fa-NA-tic)
I resemble that remark!

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Old January 23 2008, 11:05 PM   #657
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Re: Niners Unite...around Babylon 5! - The Lost Threads

^ No, I see you more as Jan-shubba-lubba.

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Old January 24 2008, 12:58 AM   #658
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Re: Niners Unite...around Babylon 5! - The Lost Threads

Neroon said:
Just a reminder to everyone about the upcoming episode viewing

When: - Saturday, January 26th 7pm EST / 4pm PST

Time: - 7:00 pm - "Passing Through Gethsemane"
8:00 pm - "The Corps Is Mother; the Corps is Father"


May send one of the Brothers Zathras to host.....
Damn. Looks like I'm going to have to skip out of this one. I'm working Friday-Saturday night this week.
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Old January 24 2008, 04:25 AM   #659
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Re: Niners Unite...around Babylon 5! - The Lost Threads

Coupons?

WHAT COUPONS???

I just spend over $200 at Cafe Press and I didn't see anything about no stinkin' coupons!



Anyway, got my box today. I've not read any of the books yet as I gotta mod my forums...but I am very happy with my Londo/G'Kar Coffee Mug For Nerds.
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Old January 24 2008, 05:03 AM   #660
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Re: Niners Unite...around Babylon 5! - The Lost Threads

Don't go all Lyta, there.

The only coupons that have regularly been available were those that gave you a discount of $10 during the first 10 days a volume is offered. There are others I think - like $5 if you refer someone else to CafePress - but I've never taken advantage of them
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