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Deep Space Nine What We Left Behind, we will always have here.

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Old September 26 2007, 07:46 PM   #451
Neroon
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Re: Niners Unite...around Babylon 5! - The Lost Threads

I have to go back through that passage again, because I'm still not sure what to think about it.

Byron's Breck Brood is one of those things that could have worked out had it been handled differently. Had we been able to care about them. The potential was there, but ... I just can't stand that part of the story. To me, that is where the strain of things on jms really shows up.
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Old September 26 2007, 07:55 PM   #452
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Re: Niners Unite...around Babylon 5! - The Lost Threads

Jan said:
^^ At various times JMS has said that 'The Face of the Enemy' would have been the Season 4 cliffhanger and at others, 'Intersections in Real Time'. Either way, Sheridan would have definitely been in trouble.

Jan
Interesting. The Face Of The Enemy would have been a great season finale. And "Intersections In Real Time" just happens to be my favourite B5 episode, so that would have been a good choice as well.
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Old September 26 2007, 08:37 PM   #453
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Re: Niners Unite...around Babylon 5! - The Lost Threads

Neroon said:
I have to go back through that passage again, because I'm still not sure what to think about it.
I think his theory about the goths may have been fairly accurate. It's the 'nerd getting the prom queen' part I don't agree with...but then I'm not a guy and I was never anywhere close to being the prom queen.

Byron's Breck Brood is one of those things that could have worked out had it been handled differently. Had we been able to care about them. The potential was there, but ... I just can't stand that part of the story. To me, that is where the strain of things on jms really shows up.
I think it worked better on paper but I also noticed while doing the 'read and watch' thing that there were some moments that were cut that showed Byron among his people that might have helped to sell their devotion to him better. I also think it didn't help that all of his group were unspeaking until the point where the group split up. Thinking back to "A Race Through Dark Places", we were far more sympathetic to those rogue telepaths because we heard their stories.

One thing for sure. In this volume and the last one you can practically feel JMS's exhaustion back then radiating off the page.

Jan
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Old September 26 2007, 11:13 PM   #454
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Re: Niners Unite...around Babylon 5! - The Lost Threads

So, as I told Jan via PM some time ago, I finally decided to buckle down and start buying the scriptbooks. As far as I'm concerned, with all the DVDs, the eleven canon novels, all of Chris Franke's score CDs, and now all 15 scriptbooks, I'll have every bit of Babylon 5 I'm interested in at my finger tips. I have all the DVDs, and am well on my way towards completing my CD and novel collections.

My first two scriptbooks--volumes 1 and 12--arrived today. They're a little smaller than I had expected, but other than that, these books do not disappoint. They're not for the average viewer, but for someone with an interest beyond that measure, they are really something special. I have class, and I've barely scratched the surface on these, but when I more thorougly complete them, I'll post some more comments. VERY interested to see what JMS has to say about Byron, and what I read by him concerning Learning Curve was right on the mark.
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Old September 27 2007, 01:22 AM   #455
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Re: Niners Unite...around Babylon 5! - The Lost Threads

Jan said:
I think his theory about the goths may have been fairly accurate. It's the 'nerd getting the prom queen' part I don't agree with...but then I'm not a guy and I was never anywhere close to being the prom queen.
See... I'm not so sure about the goth angle, either. The "prom queen" explanation seems far-fetched. Then again I never got to date the prom queen. But her identical twin sister did ask ME to her prom. :thumbsup:
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Old September 27 2007, 07:44 PM   #456
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Re: Niners Unite...around Babylon 5! - The Lost Threads

Speaking of script books, how's the 12th volume and all the concept art? (going to pick this one up eventually).
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Old September 27 2007, 08:57 PM   #457
Jan
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Re: Niners Unite...around Babylon 5! - The Lost Threads

Two words...Penisaurus Alien. <g>

The intro on this one isn't as much fun as previous books, you can tell that JMS was exhausted. And not a single footnote! But I enjoyed seeing some of the early concepts a lot and there's a photo of Andreas discussing the prosthetic the first time he wore it that's good. It's obvious that the art department had a good sense of humor. Also, there's a memo that JMS wrote to the cast and crew before the Season 5 Christmas break that's great.

Jan
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Old September 29 2007, 12:01 AM   #458
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Re: Niners Unite...around Babylon 5! - The Lost Threads

I really liked the memos on the creation of the main title sequence for year five. It put it in perspective, and makes me appreciate it a whole lot more.

The thoughts on "Learning Curve" were pretty much spot on, as well.

I totally disagree with JMS' interpretation of fan-backlash towards Byron, though. My gripe is not that Byron is a character who can quickly make people follow him, or somehow an archetype that I despised in high school. My gripe is that the actor playing Byron and the writer behind him (JMS) completely and utterly fail to create this character. Byron is unconvincing, not charismatic, not even close to being Bester's equal, he has hair so perfect in the middle of Brown Sector that it's ludicrous, he goes on painfully self-important and embarrassingly long verbal tangents, and doesn't even have any followers that are close to being fleshed out into three dimensions.

In short, I'm not against the concept of the character. I'm against the complete failure to conceptualize the character.
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Old September 29 2007, 01:21 AM   #459
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Re: Niners Unite...around Babylon 5! - The Lost Threads

Has anyone heard that story about Michael O'Hair from Garibalidis radio show?
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Old September 29 2007, 02:43 AM   #460
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Re: Niners Unite...around Babylon 5! - The Lost Threads

That's pretty much how I felt about Byron. The actor is a nice enough guy, though he drinks waaaay too much. But I never once cared about him. Any charisma he may have had was overwhelmed by the arrogance he exhibited towards people who had done him or his own people no wrong. There's no denying the plight of telepath discrimination, but still.... about the only time I sympathized with Byron was when Bester was around.
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Old September 29 2007, 04:13 AM   #461
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Re: Niners Unite...around Babylon 5! - The Lost Threads

Neroon said:
That's pretty much how I felt about Byron. The actor is a nice enough guy, though he drinks waaaay too much. But I never once cared about him. Any charisma he may have had was overwhelmed by the arrogance he exhibited towards people who had done him or his own people no wrong. There's no denying the plight of telepath discrimination, but still.... about the only time I sympathized with Byron was when Bester was around.
Bester made me sympathize with Byron less, personally. I mean, Bester's a character you hate, but you can't deny that he's charismatic and has the power of personality. Byron is supposed to be the same, but it just isn't realized.

And what's that about Robin A Downes (misspellings entirely my own) drinking too much? Bad con experience?
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Old September 29 2007, 05:51 AM   #462
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Re: Niners Unite...around Babylon 5! - The Lost Threads

Bester's bigoted and manipulative personality is precisely why I felt a modicum of sympathy for Byron. Nobody wants to be used and seen as more of a "thing".

As for RAD.... I had a good experience as his liaison one year, but others have seen him really acting in a less-than savory manner for a con guest. He still strikes me as a genuinely nice guy, but.... it's not like I know him.
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Old October 4 2007, 01:05 PM   #463
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Re: Niners Unite...around Babylon 5! - The Lost Threads

BTW.... anyone like the new avatar?

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Old October 4 2007, 04:56 PM   #464
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Re: Niners Unite...around Babylon 5! - The Lost Threads

If you expect us all to bawl our eyes out every time we see it, yeah it's great.
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Old October 4 2007, 05:14 PM   #465
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Re: Niners Unite...around Babylon 5! - The Lost Threads

Wondrous isn't it, that after all this time, after all of those viewings, that episode still has the power to reduce people to a torrent of tears. Young or old, man or woman, conservative or liberal, religious or secular. People from each of those fall under its spell. Not everybody, but a enough. Few other shows can claim that. Buffy can with "The Body". DS9 can with "The Visitor". TNG with "The Offspring". And there are a few more.

"Sleeping In Light" is the one that gets me most effectively, to be certain, but then it's the show that I have enjoyed the most. The characters I know the best.
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