RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 140,358
Posts: 5,446,038
Members: 24,970
Currently online: 484
Newest member: LaciFalor

TrekToday headlines

Kruge Bobble Head
By: T'Bonz on Oct 30

Two Trek Actors In Green Room
By: T'Bonz on Oct 30

Trek UglyDolls First Look
By: T'Bonz on Oct 29

New Star Trek Select Action Figure
By: T'Bonz on Oct 29

Trek Actors In Elsa & Fred
By: T'Bonz on Oct 29

The Red Shirt Diaries #9
By: T'Bonz on Oct 28

Greenwood Cast In Truth
By: T'Bonz on Oct 28

Cumberbatch In Talks For Strange
By: T'Bonz on Oct 28

Two New Trek Bobble Heads
By: T'Bonz on Oct 27

Meaney On Playing Historical Figure Durant
By: T'Bonz on Oct 27


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > Star Trek - Original Series

Star Trek - Original Series The one that started it all...

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old September 8 2013, 12:26 AM   #121
Maurice
Vice Admiral
 
Maurice's Avatar
 
Location: Maurice in San Francisco
View Maurice's Twitter Profile
Re: Photo request -- Enterprise hangar deck studio miniature

I'm not making any assumptions. I'm just putting these images together as a point of discussion.

As to the hangar doors, I pointed this out in the post. I must assume you just looked at the pictures.
__________________
* * *
"The road to hell is paved with works-in-progress."
—Philip Roth

Last edited by Maurice; September 8 2013 at 08:54 PM. Reason: Changed "shuttlebay" to "hangar"
Maurice is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 8 2013, 01:18 AM   #122
Christopher
Writer
 
Christopher's Avatar
 
Re: Photo request -- Enterprise hangar deck studio miniature

^Please, I'm not trying to be confrontational or personal. This is interesting, and I'd like to explore the question more fully. It looks to me like if we disregard the dimensions of the doors in the profile cutaway, then the rest of the bay as shown could be a somewhat closer fit. That's my hypothesis; now I'd be interested to see you test it so we'll know whether it's right or wrong.
__________________
Christopher L. Bennett Homepage -- Site update 4/8/14 including annotations for Rise of the Federation: Tower of Babel

Written Worlds -- My blog
Christopher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 8 2013, 01:46 AM   #123
trevanian
Rear Admiral
 
Re: Photo request -- Enterprise hangar deck studio miniature

Robert Comsol wrote: View Post
Christopher wrote: View Post
Although I'm still annoyed at Franz Joseph for not realizing that the "pipe cathedral" behind the engine-room grille was a forced-perspective set piece.
Well, it wouldn't come as a surprise once you assume (what I do) that The Making of Star Trek (with the studio set blueprint and its forced-perspective "cathedral") was all he basically worked with.
His hangar deck observation corridor (with the pairs of triple windows) clearly reveals that either he had never seen the actual shuttlebay VFX footage or didn't notice.
The single very long & comprehensive interview with FJ that I have read, which was in ENTERPRISE INCIDENTS magazine, indicates everything he did that wasn't whole cloth invention derived from hours and hour and hours of studying film clips ... I don't think he mentions the drawing in TMOST at all (and I thought years back that everybody had declared the line drawings in that book as invalid, though I can't point to anything other than memory.)

I don't know if there are other particulars that interview might shed light upon, but it is definitely in the EI all interviews issue, plus I guess a previous one as well.
trevanian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 8 2013, 02:41 AM   #124
ZapBrannigan
Fleet Captain
 
ZapBrannigan's Avatar
 
Location: New York State
Re: Photo request -- Enterprise hangar deck studio miniature

trevanian wrote: View Post
The single very long & comprehensive interview with FJ that I have read, which was in ENTERPRISE INCIDENTS magazine, indicates everything he did that wasn't whole cloth invention derived from hours and hour and hours of studying film clips ... I don't think he mentions the drawing in TMOST at all (and I thought years back that everybody had declared the line drawings in that book as invalid, though I can't point to anything other than memory.)

Well, it's obvious from inspection that FJ gobbled up TMOST as a research source, including photos, drawings, and text. Just to cite one example, the bottom of FJ's secondary hull shows the curve of MJ's drawings, which is not present on the 11-footer. FJ didn't trace MJ's diagrams, but it's beyond question that he looked at them.
ZapBrannigan is online now   Reply With Quote
Old September 8 2013, 02:48 AM   #125
GSchnitzer
Co-Executive Producer
 
GSchnitzer's Avatar
 
Location: Gaithersburg, Maryland, USA, Terra
Send a message via AIM to GSchnitzer Send a message via Windows Live Messenger to GSchnitzer Send a message via Yahoo to GSchnitzer
Re: Photo request -- Enterprise hangar deck studio miniature

trevanian wrote: View Post
Robert Comsol wrote: View Post
Christopher wrote: View Post
Although I'm still annoyed at Franz Joseph for not realizing that the "pipe cathedral" behind the engine-room grille was a forced-perspective set piece.
Well, it wouldn't come as a surprise once you assume (what I do) that The Making of Star Trek (with the studio set blueprint and its forced-perspective "cathedral") was all he basically worked with.
His hangar deck observation corridor (with the pairs of triple windows) clearly reveals that either he had never seen the actual shuttlebay VFX footage or didn't notice.
The single very long & comprehensive interview with FJ that I have read, which was in ENTERPRISE INCIDENTS magazine, indicates everything he did that wasn't whole cloth invention derived from hours and hour and hours of studying film clips ... I don't think he mentions the drawing in TMOST at all (and I thought years back that everybody had declared the line drawings in that book as invalid, though I can't point to anything other than memory.)

I don't know if there are other particulars that interview might shed light upon, but it is definitely in the EI all interviews issue, plus I guess a previous one as well.
"Then [FJ's daughter] Karen got a set of the...they're called the "Enterprise drawing set" at Lincoln Enterprises...you know, the famous three-view and the cutaway, and other things from Stephen Whitfield's book; and the drawing of the hangar deck...and I think there was also a drawing of the shuttlecraft. From these sketches and those in Whitfield's book, I then laid out...those drawings were bad, they're out of scale...but I laid the drawing out, scaled and sized it, and made a drawing of the Enterprise. Next I devised the Dreadnought, made a drawing of one of the uniforms, and about twelve drawings in all. They were drawn on the format I'd already devised for the Technical Orders. I sent a copy of the T.O.'s for the Dreadnought and the Enterprise to Gene Roddenberry on June 3rd, told him what I was doing, and inquired about proprietary rights."

The old Enterprise Incidents article is here

http://www.trekplace.com/fj-fjnewittint01.html
__________________
Greg Schnitzer
Co-Executive Producer
Star Trek Phase II
http://www.startrekphase2.com
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm3348883/
GSchnitzer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 9 2013, 09:55 PM   #126
Ambassador Petri
Lieutenant
 
Location: Finland
Re: Photo request -- Enterprise hangar deck studio miniature

Robert Comsol wrote: View Post
neoworx wrote: View Post
Specifically, things on different planes will "move" relative to other structures.
I am aware of the distortions created by different shooting angles and the use of different lenses.

But here is, again, what is apparently the original VFX model prior to last minute additions (signage, equipment [?] box):



And here is the color close-up that is supposedly a shot of the same and original VFX model:



In the color shot the photpgrapher has moved closer to the port side wall and logically the inner shuttlebay wall is now shielding parts of the embayments from our view.

But the long embayment is not nearly deep enough to enable the inner shuttlebay wall to possibly shield that much of this embayment (and to get this close to the "Warning Fire" sign), IMO.
Also, in the original shot the "Elevators" black direction arrow is outside the white text field while in the close-up shot it is inside the white text field!
Happened to find this thread while googling for shuttlebay pictures, so let me put an end to the speculation - the two close-up color "photos" of the sides of the shuttlebay are definitely from my shuttlebay rendering for William McCullars' article about TOS filming miniatures in Star Trek Communicator #133, published in 2001. I didn't know it had been used anywhere else.

It was a pretty good recreation, but by no means perfect, as this debate illustrates.

Petri Blomqvist
Ambassador Petri is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 9 2013, 10:33 PM   #127
Robert Comsol
Commodore
 
Robert Comsol's Avatar
 
Location: USS Berlin
Re: Photo request -- Enterprise hangar deck studio miniature

Ambassador Petri wrote: View Post
It was a pretty good recreation, but by no means perfect, as this debate illustrates.
But an outstanding accomplishment I must add, thanks for the clarification.

What kind of reference materials did you use for the CGI rendering?
Your "fueling station" nozzles look pretty much like the real thing in these rare black & white photos of the original miniature.

And Alchemist said he had a high resolution camera negative scan suggesting the text above the nozzles to be "fueling station". How did you figure this one out?

I'm also relieved that Mr. Datin is no longer under suspicion for "misremembering" or senility. I'd say the quest to find original photpgraphs with the original text signs goes on.

Bob
__________________
"The first duty of every Starfleet officer is to the truth" Jean-Luc Picard
"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
Albert Einstein
Robert Comsol is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 10 2013, 04:05 AM   #128
Maurice
Vice Admiral
 
Maurice's Avatar
 
Location: Maurice in San Francisco
View Maurice's Twitter Profile
Re: Photo request -- Enterprise hangar deck studio miniature

So, Petri, any other or better quality photos of this model?
__________________
* * *
"The road to hell is paved with works-in-progress."
—Philip Roth
Maurice is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 10 2013, 02:42 PM   #129
ZapBrannigan
Fleet Captain
 
ZapBrannigan's Avatar
 
Location: New York State
Re: Photo request -- Enterprise hangar deck studio miniature

My compliments to Petri Blomqvist on a build that I guessed was either the real deal or the work of Greg Jein.

And I tip my hat to Robert Comsol. You called it from the start.
ZapBrannigan is online now   Reply With Quote
Old September 10 2013, 04:46 PM   #130
Redfern
Commodore
 
Redfern's Avatar
 
Location: Georgia, USA
Re: Photo request -- Enterprise hangar deck studio miniature

Now he'll be impossible to live with.

Sincerely,

Bill
__________________
Tempt the Hand of Fate and it'll give you the "finger"!

Freighter Tails: the Misadventures of Mzzkiti
Redfern is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 10 2013, 06:26 PM   #131
Robert Comsol
Commodore
 
Robert Comsol's Avatar
 
Location: USS Berlin
Re: Photo request -- Enterprise hangar deck studio miniature

Redfern wrote: View Post
Now he'll be impossible to live with.
I had hoped that my reaction to Petri Blomqvist's clarification suggested otherwise.

By the way, Mr. Blomqvist is the gentleman who provided essential CGI reproductions for the TOS remastering (which obviously required a lot of talent and we saw here how good he is).

Bob
__________________
"The first duty of every Starfleet officer is to the truth" Jean-Luc Picard
"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
Albert Einstein
Robert Comsol is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 10 2013, 06:55 PM   #132
Redfern
Commodore
 
Redfern's Avatar
 
Location: Georgia, USA
Re: Photo request -- Enterprise hangar deck studio miniature

Odd, I placed a winking emoticon as the end of my comment to hopefully illustrate I was posting thoroughly "tongue in cheek". Does it not display on your end? It appears upon my display.

Sincerely,

Bill
__________________
Tempt the Hand of Fate and it'll give you the "finger"!

Freighter Tails: the Misadventures of Mzzkiti
Redfern is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 10 2013, 08:30 PM   #133
Robert Comsol
Commodore
 
Robert Comsol's Avatar
 
Location: USS Berlin
Re: Photo request -- Enterprise hangar deck studio miniature

I got it but just couldn't resist the temptation to use your comment as an opportunity to express myself.

Bob
__________________
"The first duty of every Starfleet officer is to the truth" Jean-Luc Picard
"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
Albert Einstein
Robert Comsol is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 10 2013, 08:53 PM   #134
Professor Moriarty
Vice Admiral
 
Professor Moriarty's Avatar
 
Location: System L-374
View Professor Moriarty's Twitter Profile
Re: Photo request -- Enterprise hangar deck studio miniature

Boy, I step out for a six-year smoke break and all heck breaks loose!

Thank you Ambassador Petri for clearing up that mystery, and thanks for your inspiring CGI work back in the early 2000's which got me into this maddening hobby.
__________________
My crappy blog
Professor Moriarty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 10 2013, 08:59 PM   #135
Praetor
Vice Admiral
 
Praetor's Avatar
 
Location: The fine line between continuity and fanwank.
Re: Photo request -- Enterprise hangar deck studio miniature

Professor Moriarty wrote: View Post
Boy, I step out for a six-year smoke break and all heck breaks loose!
Say, I did think I saw you standing out back on the other side of the loading dock.
__________________
"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross; but it's not for the timid." - Q
Praetor is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 10:51 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.