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Star Trek - Original Series The one that started it all...

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Old August 18 2007, 04:47 PM   #31
Basill
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Re: Photo request -- Enterprise hangar deck studio miniature

Professor Moriarty said:
And since you can't see the hangar bay clamshell doors behind the shuttlecraft, the only logical explanation would seem to be that this set of double doors is indeed on the starboard side of the hangar deck (assuming that the shuttle is pointing towards the clamshell doors).
I'm not sure I would presume the side of the ship so easily, since the shuttles have a tendency to spin on their little turntables before launching. I think this episode (the original version anyway) showed this action. If that is correct, it's more likely Spock and McCoy do their conversing and parting on the Port side.

Professor Moriarty said:
SonicRanger said:
^^^
Can't that shot show the shuttle after the hangar deck elevator has lowered it to a storage or maintenance facility?
But see, that's the argument I'm trying to make... there just isn't enough vertical room for a storage space that tall.

Look at this photo from "The Immunity Syndrome". The Galileo prop was over seven feet tall, and we can just barely see something at the top of the frame that might be the roof, but that's twice the height of the shuttle overhead. Sure, I suppose you could have a 14-foot roof in the under-hangar maintenance bay, but why would you? Volumetric space is at a premium--there's no need to have a under-deck maintenance/storage bay that's much taller than the shuttle itself.
I agree there isn't room, especially being that close to the aft of the ship and the clamshell doors. Also, that object just visible through the door frame doesn't span the entire width of the opening. It seems to cut off just shy of the door's right boundary. Another factor is that they do indeed make use of the ships pressure/airlock systems. If they were in an under-maintenance bay, which I would expect needs to be fully pressurized under routine conditions, why would they need to utilize that system? I'm not saying there is no maintenance or storage facility on the original Enterprise. I can't imagine the ship without one somewhere. But, I agree it is most likely not a huge bay directly under the main landing area, and the Spock/McCoy scene certainly doesn't take place there.

At any rate, given the off-scale proportions of the original models and sets, all of this has to be fudged in order to work. The revamped episodes featuring these subjects appear to be fixing the scale of the shuttles in relation to the bay area at least.
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Old August 18 2007, 07:00 PM   #32
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Re: Photo request -- Enterprise hangar deck studio miniature

Thanks to everyone for their help on this. Here's a little sneak peek of what the photo request was for.
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Old August 18 2007, 07:20 PM   #33
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Re: Photo request -- Enterprise hangar deck studio miniature

Lovely, except for the Lite-Brite colored buttons and the shuttledeck wall color. I really think using the original tan would look much nicer.

Heck, I just wanna see the full thing at this point.
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Old August 18 2007, 10:04 PM   #34
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Re: Photo request -- Enterprise hangar deck studio miniature

Professor Moriarty said:
Thanks to everyone for their help on this. Here's a little sneak peek of what the photo request was for.
Cool image! One comment, though... if the shuttlecraft is named after Walter "Matt" Jefferies, then you might want to change the spelling on the decal. (It's a very common mistake.)
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Old August 18 2007, 11:29 PM   #35
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Re: Photo request -- Enterprise hangar deck studio miniature

Oh crap... are you kidding me?! I even Googled it to be sure before I stenciled it onto the hull, but you're right... I still managed to get it wrong.

EDIT: Fixed... thanks FalTorPan! Better to find that goof now rather than later after having rendered a couple hundred frames for the "Doomsday Machine"! Also, after further consideration I think Mariner Class was right about the wall color and "Lite Brite" colors on the winky-blinky panel... I think these are bit closer to the Trek universe.
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Old August 19 2007, 05:54 AM   #36
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Re: Photo request -- Enterprise hangar deck studio miniature

Awesome job. I've loved your work up to this point. Glad to see it continues.
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Old August 19 2007, 04:47 PM   #37
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Re: Photo request -- Enterprise hangar deck studio miniature

No problemo, Professor Moriarty. By the way, your work is nothing less than jaw-droppingly cool. I love it, especially...

* the "shiny concrete floor" texture
* the trim around the pocket doors
* the lighting!

Professor Moriarty said:
Also, after further consideration I think Mariner Class was right about the wall color and "Lite Brite" colors on the winky-blinky panel... I think these are bit closer to the Trek universe.
If you don't mind further criticism, only two things keep the image from feeling "authentically TOSsy:"

1. The typefaces of the "FUELING STATION" and warning label surrounding the shuttlecraft elevator look too much like the standard Windows fonts that they probably are. I recommend searching for (or creating, if you're so inclined) type faces that are more consistent with pre-established ones from TOS and/or the 1960s.

2. The winky-blinky panel still doesn't seem right. The structure of the console looks great, but I would consider reworking the three tiers like so:

* Upper -- something inspired by the engine room panels only seen in "That Which Survives"

* Middle -- Either (a) tan "circuit board" with sparse flashing lights, like one of the wall panels in the engine room, or (b) a large, more square version of an upper-panel display screen from the bridge

* Lower -- The control panel is much more dense with blinkies than any panel in TOS. Try something inspired by the engine room control consoles, control panel, or the bridge helm console

It might also be fun to add a couple of those white engine room "pipe wrenches" from "Space Seed."

Just some suggestions. Your work is outstanding.
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Old August 19 2007, 04:53 PM   #38
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Re: Photo request -- Enterprise hangar deck studio miniature

Professor Moriarty said:
Timo said:
(Peering through it, one should be able to see the shuttle, as indeed happens on occasion.)
And since you can't see the hangar bay clamshell doors behind the shuttlecraft, the only logical explanation would seem to be that this set of double doors is indeed on the starboard side of the hangar deck (assuming that the shuttle is pointing towards the clamshell doors).
Since you can't see any hangar bay features (aside from the "turntable ring," which isn't centered between the double doors and the far wall), the only logical explanation is that this set of double doors opens into a very large and totally featureless room -- not the hangar bay as represented by the filming miniature.
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Old August 19 2007, 06:26 PM   #39
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Re: Photo request -- Enterprise hangar deck studio miniature

FalTorPan said:
No problemo, Professor Moriarty. By the way, your work is nothing less than jaw-droppingly cool. I love it, especially...

* the "shiny concrete floor" texture
* the trim around the pocket doors
* the lighting!

Professor Moriarty said:
Also, after further consideration I think Mariner Class was right about the wall color and "Lite Brite" colors on the winky-blinky panel... I think these are bit closer to the Trek universe.
If you don't mind further criticism, only two things keep the image from feeling "authentically TOSsy:"

1. The typefaces of the "FUELING STATION" and warning label surrounding the shuttlecraft elevator look too much like the standard Windows fonts that they probably are. I recommend searching for (or creating, if you're so inclined) type faces that are more consistent with pre-established ones from TOS and/or the 1960s.

2. The winky-blinky panel still doesn't seem right. The structure of the console looks great, but I would consider reworking the three tiers like so:

* Upper -- something inspired by the engine room panels only seen in "That Which Survives"

* Middle -- Either (a) tan "circuit board" with sparse flashing lights, like one of the wall panels in the engine room, or (b) a large, more square version of an upper-panel display screen from the bridge

* Lower -- The control panel is much more dense with blinkies than any panel in TOS. Try something inspired by the engine room control consoles, control panel, or the bridge helm console

It might also be fun to add a couple of those white engine room "pipe wrenches" from "Space Seed."

Just some suggestions. Your work is outstanding.
Oh believe me, I will be tweaking this thing right up until the point where I actually need it for filming, so keep the comments coming. And yes, those fonts are just placeholders right now--I'm still looking for more TOS-era-looking fonts. One of my biggest complaints regarding the current Enterprise model they're using on "Remastered" is the font used on the saucer registry--it's completely wrong. Typefaces are surpisingly one of the biggest things to make or break a CGI model. Don't believe me? The next time you see a model of a contemporary automobile, look at the license plate.
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Old August 19 2007, 11:31 PM   #40
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Re: Photo request -- Enterprise hangar deck studio miniature

Professor Moriarty said:

Oh believe me, I will be tweaking this thing right up until the point where I actually need it for filming, so keep the comments coming.
More cream. (Or maybe it's just the lighting. I even think warm, yellow-tinted lights would work just as well.)

One of my biggest complaints regarding the current Enterprise model they're using on "Remastered" is the font used on the saucer registry--it's completely wrong. Typefaces are surpisingly one of the biggest things to make or break a CGI model. Don't believe me? The next time you see a model of a contemporary automobile, look at the license plate.
I'm glad I'm not the only one who notices this.





My question is: What are they using? It isn't even the AMT font. Even Amarillo USAF (which is almost exactly what was used on the model) would be fine.

But, meh.
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Old August 20 2007, 07:24 AM   #41
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Re: Photo request -- Enterprise hangar deck studio miniature

I honestly don't see any difference at all. No matter how hard I squint.

I'm not sure I would presume the side of the ship so easily, since the shuttles have a tendency to spin on their little turntables before launching.
Exactly. And in fact, if the shuttle rests on the turntable, then a person peering through one of the angled doors marked "ELEVATORS" would see it side on only if the shuttle were rotated at something like 45 degree angle.

In which case the background would not be the clamshell doors, nor the side walls of the bay. The background would be that relatively broad, featureless grey "collar" that goes between the bay doors and the side walls!

How was this done in the "Journey to Babel" and "Immunity Syndrome" remasterings, BTW? Was anything inserted on the live-action background at all? I gather not, since it's not on the VFX reels. Which sort of means that the 45 degree angle thing is the easiest way out.

...And I mean that literally. If one wants to create a redshirt line of honor from the shuttle to the angled elevator door, the most stylish way to do that would be to rotate the shuttle 45 degrees, and have the straight line at 45 degrees to the ship's walls but 90 degrees to the shuttlecraft door and the elevator door.

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Old August 20 2007, 02:24 PM   #42
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Re: Photo request -- Enterprise hangar deck studio miniature

Timo said:
I honestly don't see any difference at all. No matter how hard I squint.
No need to squint.

Remastered CGI Enterprise:


11' studio model Enterprise:



Look at the shape of the rounded characters, such as the C in "NCC" or the S in "U.S.S.". But most noticeably, look at the thickness of the characters... the strokes in the characters on the CGIprise are distinctly thinner. The font of the registry on the CGI Enterprise is completely different.

(The image of the studio model is courtesy of Mike Trice and his excellent Enterprise model photographs website.
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Old August 20 2007, 04:08 PM   #43
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Re: Photo request -- Enterprise hangar deck studio miniature

Thanks... But I'm still having serious difficulty telling the fonts apart. To me, the thicknesses look identical, and the seeming roundedness of the CGI version appears to me a mere matter of "softness" of focus - the upper corners of the CGI "C" look rounded (that is, with very short 45 degree segments) from this angle, but the lower ones are still sharp / with long segments.

Then again, I've never understood the font thing. I'm just not the sort of person capable of fathoming why a typeface with short serifs should cost hundreds of dollars while one with long ones is free, so I guess I tend to actively avoid seeing any uniqueness or merit to specific fonts...

(And yeah, Mike Trice rules! As do certain other sources linked to good old IDIC Page.)

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Old August 21 2007, 02:12 AM   #44
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Re: Photo request -- Enterprise hangar deck studio miniature

The TOS-R font looks like it might be an altered version of the U.S. Naval font LongBeach USN -- one that has been altered to resemble the proportions of the TOS hull font (Airborne). Airborne is itself an altered version of the U.S. Air Force font Amarillo USAF.
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Old August 21 2007, 03:48 AM   #45
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Re: Photo request -- Enterprise hangar deck studio miniature

Which is why the font is often referred to as "Amarillo USAF". :thumbsup:
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