RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 140,389
Posts: 5,447,413
Members: 24,975
Currently online: 424
Newest member: HeathWescom

TrekToday headlines

Retro Review: Treachery, Faith and the Great River
By: Michelle on Nov 1

Crowded Coop Trek-Themed Bags and Wallets
By: T'Bonz on Oct 31

Original Series Hoodies
By: T'Bonz on Oct 31

Star Trek-Planet Of The Apes Comic Preview
By: T'Bonz on Oct 31

November-December 2014 Trek Conventions And Appearances
By: T'Bonz on Oct 31

Kruge Bobble Head
By: T'Bonz on Oct 30

Two Trek Actors In Green Room
By: T'Bonz on Oct 30

Trek UglyDolls First Look
By: T'Bonz on Oct 29

New Star Trek Select Action Figure
By: T'Bonz on Oct 29

Trek Actors In Elsa & Fred
By: T'Bonz on Oct 29


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > Star Trek - Original Series

Star Trek - Original Series The one that started it all...

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old September 11 2013, 01:09 AM   #136
Warped9
Admiral
 
Warped9's Avatar
 
Location: Brockville, Ontario, Canada
Re: Photo request -- Enterprise hangar deck studio miniature

Pics! I wanna see more pics! Puhlease!!!
__________________
STAR TREK: 1964-1991, 2013-?
Warped9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 11 2013, 04:05 AM   #137
Professor Moriarty
Vice Admiral
 
Professor Moriarty's Avatar
 
Location: System L-374
View Professor Moriarty's Twitter Profile
Re: Photo request -- Enterprise hangar deck studio miniature

After 47 years I'm afraid the treasure trove of heretofore unseen photographs from the original series is vanishingly small, if not non-existent. But ya never know...!
__________________
My crappy blog
Professor Moriarty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 11 2013, 04:21 AM   #138
MGagen
Captain
 
MGagen's Avatar
 
Location: Crucis Court, Trans-Coal Sack Sector
Re: Photo request -- Enterprise hangar deck studio miniature

Hi, guys. Sorry to come back so late to this "revivified" thread.

First, I'm glad to have Petri confirm that he is the source of the color hangar shots from the ST Communicator article. Often things are run in magazines without proper captions or attribution.

Here's what I know about the model and the drawings.

I am the source of the idea that the TMOST drawings are of the forced perspective set. I had pored over them for years before I finally noticed that they do indeed have forced perspective details. If you distort these back out of it, you end up with something that is much closer to fitting in the available space. But keep in mind that MJ didn't have CAD modeling tools and a personal computer with Photoshop. Don't expect it to come out perfectly when you warp it back into shape.

My theory about the drawings was that they found their way into the writers guide (and then into TMOST) as the real thing, rather than the set.

Later I corresponded with Richard Datin on the subject and he assured me that the miniature set (which he built) did not have forced perspective features. He said the walls were cylindrical.

I still maintain that the TMOST drawing is not the "real" hangar bay, but an early set concept; but the plans changed before construction. Later, they likely needed an illustration of the hangar for the writers guide and that one was ready to hand. One thing we KNOW they didn't have was an abundance of was extra time. It was good enough.

If you want to see what Jefferies really meant the hangar to be, look to his Phase II cross section. That is a real, scale drawing; and it is much shorter front to back and has galleries that are parallel with the deck and don't diminish in size as they go aft.



As for my virtual model, I really had to shoe-horn it in but I managed to make it fit in a way that looks pretty much like what we saw on screen. But as was mentioned up thread, you have to use a wide angle lens, and place the camera outside the forward bulkhead looking into the space to get the same view. In my version, the profile of the interior is cylindrical. This gives us more space behind the forward pocket doors. There is just enough space to have a room similar to the one visible in BABEL when the honor guard greets Sarek and Amanda (although you have to place the camera outside the hull of the ship to get the right angle). There is also just enough room behind the inner wall below the control booths for a curving ladder to ascend up into the booths. Here is a perspective cutaway view of my hangar (not finished yet in this image). The amount of space shown between the exterior and the interior at the top is the same that is available at the sides. You can also see into the port observation gallery to the view ports seen in COTK, and part of the port pylon interior structural support can be seen in the forward gallery:



That's my 2 cents. Your mileage, of course, may vary...

M.
MGagen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 11 2013, 04:48 AM   #139
trevanian
Rear Admiral
 
Re: Photo request -- Enterprise hangar deck studio miniature

I'm amazed it wasn't forced perspective, just due to depth of field issues with the low speed stocks used. Would love to know how they lit this thing, the model must have been seriously baked.
trevanian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 11 2013, 12:40 PM   #140
Robert Comsol
Commodore
 
Robert Comsol's Avatar
 
Location: USS Berlin
Re: Photo request -- Enterprise hangar deck studio miniature

@ MGagen

That's a beautiful cross-section you are sharing with us, thanks!

But I notice that you made the ceiling beams parallel to the flight deck rather than to align these with the outer hull.

Two of these magnificient five original shots you thankfully provided suggest that also on the model the ceiling beams were angled:





Apparently the angle of the ceiling beams wouldn't match the back of the ship "in-universe" but given the choice to either make them parallel to the exterior hull or the flight deck, what was your motivation to make these parallel to the flight deck?

Bob
__________________
"The first duty of every Starfleet officer is to the truth" Jean-Luc Picard
"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
Albert Einstein
Robert Comsol is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 11 2013, 08:17 PM   #141
Maurice
Vice Admiral
 
Maurice's Avatar
 
Location: Maurice in San Francisco
View Maurice's Twitter Profile
Re: Photo request -- Enterprise hangar deck studio miniature

Wait...if the model walls were in fact "cylindrical" and not conical, there should be no angle on the ceiling beams.
__________________
* * *
"The road to hell is paved with works-in-progress."
—Philip Roth
Maurice is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 11 2013, 08:39 PM   #142
Ambassador Petri
Lieutenant
 
Location: Finland
Re: Photo request -- Enterprise hangar deck studio miniature

Robert Comsol wrote: View Post
But an outstanding accomplishment I must add, thanks for the clarification.
Thank you!

What kind of reference materials did you use for the CGI rendering?
It's been a long time, but I don't recall having anything that hasn't been floating around the internet forever. If I had any higher-res scans given to me I've sure lost them long ago. Hence, my search that led to this thread.

Maurice wrote: View Post
So, Petri, any other or better quality photos of this model?
If you mean my rendering, here's a scan I made from my copy of the issue it was in (I lost the original files long ago):



ZapBrannigan wrote: View Post
My compliments to Petri Blomqvist on a build that I guessed was either the real deal or the work of Greg Jein.
Thanks, now THAT is a compliment!

Robert Comsol wrote: View Post
By the way, Mr. Blomqvist is the gentleman who provided essential CGI reproductions for the TOS remastering (which obviously required a lot of talent and we saw here how good he is).
Thanks, although the talent is debatable I think! Mostly it required lots of work, dedication and of course collaborating with Gary Kerr.

Professor Moriarty wrote: View Post
Thank you Ambassador Petri for clearing up that mystery, and thanks for your inspiring CGI work back in the early 2000's which got me into this maddening hobby.
Sorry about that! Love your work by the way, as well as Mark Gagen's, and so many others. I still occasionally do it as well - my latest Enterprise renderings can be found on the Polar Lights 1/350 scale TOS Enterprise model kit and accessory pack boxes (shameless plug)
Ambassador Petri is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 11 2013, 08:49 PM   #143
Ambassador Petri
Lieutenant
 
Location: Finland
Re: Photo request -- Enterprise hangar deck studio miniature

Maurice wrote: View Post
Wait...if the model walls were in fact "cylindrical" and not conical, there should be no angle on the ceiling beams.
Indeed. But here's a quote from Datin in the Star Trek Communicator article my rendering appeared in:

"According to my figures, (the model) was 10'-2" long, 6'-4" wide by 3'-2" high at the inboard end and 5'-0" wide and 2'-5" high at the outboard end, where the clamshell doors were located."

Based on that, I'd say the model walls were conical, and that's how I built my 3d model as well. By the way, Datin also mentions the scale of the model was one inch to the foot, in other words 1/12.
Ambassador Petri is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 11 2013, 09:17 PM   #144
Redfern
Commodore
 
Redfern's Avatar
 
Location: Georgia, USA
Re: Photo request -- Enterprise hangar deck studio miniature

Ambassador Petri wrote: View Post
...Datin also mentions the scale of the model was one inch to the foot, in other words 1/12.
Hmm, just a "hair" too big for the PlayMates Trek action figures from the 90s, but "close enough for gov'ment work".

Sincerely,

Bill
__________________
Tempt the Hand of Fate and it'll give you the "finger"!

Freighter Tails: the Misadventures of Mzzkiti
Redfern is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 12 2013, 02:32 AM   #145
MGagen
Captain
 
MGagen's Avatar
 
Location: Crucis Court, Trans-Coal Sack Sector
Re: Photo request -- Enterprise hangar deck studio miniature

Good to hear from you, Petri.

I was obviously misremembering Datin saying the walls were cylindrical. He merely said there were no forced perspective elements in the set as built (i.e.: the galleries didn't diminish in size and elevation like they do on the TMOST drawing).

And thanks for posting the actual size figures. I had been looking over my files and ran across a discussion several of us were having back in November '02 where they came up. I think the main reason I went with a cylindrical profile in my model was to be able to have room for something behind those doors in the side pockets. My goal has been to make it look as much like the original as possible, but still make it functional. It's the same reason I placed windows on the aft side of the control booths when we can see they aren't there in the reverse shots of the miniature. It's also why I lowered two windows on the exterior to align with the observation galleries.

But now I may have to go back and revisit the hangar (and the galleries).

An obsessive fan's work is never done...

M.
MGagen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 12 2013, 03:07 AM   #146
blssdwlf
Commodore
 
Re: Photo request -- Enterprise hangar deck studio miniature

Ambassador Petri wrote: View Post


That's a beautiful rendering Now I know who's work I've been admiring

FWIW, I was able to get almost everything to line up in the CGI version I'm working on.


(click for big version)
blssdwlf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 12 2013, 09:21 AM   #147
Robert Comsol
Commodore
 
Robert Comsol's Avatar
 
Location: USS Berlin
Re: Photo request -- Enterprise hangar deck studio miniature

Ambassador Petri wrote: View Post
Here's a quote from Datin in the Star Trek Communicator article my rendering appeared in:

"According to my figures, (the model) was 10'-2" long, 6'-4" wide by 3'-2" high at the inboard end and 5'-0" wide and 2'-5" high at the outboard end, where the clamshell doors were located." ...

Datin also mentions the scale of the model was one inch to the foot, in other words 1/12.
That's just wonderful to have the actual figures of the VFX model.

Now I'm most definitely curious how this would reflect in a properly matched cross-section of the Enterprise assuming a length of 947' compared with the "alternate" length of 1,080'.

Bob
__________________
"The first duty of every Starfleet officer is to the truth" Jean-Luc Picard
"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
Albert Einstein
Robert Comsol is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 13 2013, 08:38 AM   #148
Robert Comsol
Commodore
 
Robert Comsol's Avatar
 
Location: USS Berlin
Re: Photo request -- Enterprise hangar deck studio miniature

I did some calculations with the Datin figures (based on an overall length of 1,080') and according to these, blssdwlf's cross-section illustrated above is a rather perfect match (great work considering he did not have the Datin figures, as far as I know, and entirely relied on visual data ).

However, it's painfully obvious, that the shuttlebay extends into "pylon space" and apparently more so if we consider an overall length of 947'. On the bright side the lift mechanism of the shuttlecraft elevator no longer needs to be too diagonal.

I'd say that would put the wall with the missing "U"-segment of the observation corridor (i.e. the observation corridor looking aft) in the center of the "pylon space" (I'm aware that for the observation corridor seen in "The Conscience of the King" they redressed the Romulan bridge, but I'm confident that the producers' intention was to present this redressed set and its windows as part of the port side observation corridor seen on the shuttlebay model ).

Bob
__________________
"The first duty of every Starfleet officer is to the truth" Jean-Luc Picard
"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
Albert Einstein
Robert Comsol is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 13 2013, 08:51 AM   #149
Maurice
Vice Admiral
 
Maurice's Avatar
 
Location: Maurice in San Francisco
View Maurice's Twitter Profile
Re: Photo request -- Enterprise hangar deck studio miniature

Aside from the doorways (which appear in other episodes as well) I don't see much resemblance between TCOTK observation deck and the BOT Romulan cockpit aside from some angled walls which aren't even at the same angles.
__________________
* * *
"The road to hell is paved with works-in-progress."
—Philip Roth
Maurice is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 13 2013, 09:24 AM   #150
Robert Comsol
Commodore
 
Robert Comsol's Avatar
 
Location: USS Berlin
Re: Photo request -- Enterprise hangar deck studio miniature

Well, according to blssdwlf's examinations here, the observation corridor set was getting wider the closer it got to the camera (here we do have a case of "forced perspective").

I may have misremembered whether only the doors from the Romulan cockpit were reused or other parts of that set as well.

Bob
__________________
"The first duty of every Starfleet officer is to the truth" Jean-Luc Picard
"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
Albert Einstein
Robert Comsol is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 11:38 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.