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The Next Generation All Good Things come to an end...but not here.

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Old August 3 2007, 04:01 AM   #16
Mordock
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Re: Who was a better counselor, Troi or Guinan?

I don't know if one character was "better", since it's a question of the emphasis of the writing. I lean towards Peter David's interpretation: whenever Troi was in danger of getting a good scene, it went to Guinan.
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Old August 3 2007, 04:52 AM   #17
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Re: Who was a better counselor, Troi or Guinan?

Guinan. AND she wasn't annoying.
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Old August 4 2007, 04:50 PM   #18
Ezri
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Re: Who was a better counselor, Troi or Guinan?

Guinan was better.

Did Troi as a counselor change the universe?
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Old October 28 2013, 03:20 AM   #19
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Re: Who was a better counselor, Troi or Guinan?

I was going to start the same thread, but saw this one which already existed, so here are my thoughts:

- Troi and Guinan appear to have similar, perhaps duplicate job functions. And yet only Deanna Troi is the "official" ship counsellor, Guinan does not report to her. In other words, Guinan is only a bartender providing occasional advice, but in no way is she a member of Enterprise's "counselling department" so to speak.

- Guinan appears to provide advice on a "general" level. She rarely dwells into the specific, her advice seems to be vague and open to interpretation. On the other hand, Ms. Troi provides very particular, specific advice down to the task level, she says how to implement the advice, she's very practical.

- Guinan is sought for her "wisdom" while Deanna Troi is sought for her skills. Guinan reminds me of the Oracle in Matrix movies, who was telling everyone "what they wanted to hear" but seldom gave direct answers to questions. On the other hand, Guinan wouldn't be out of place in a Star Wars movie.
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Old October 28 2013, 05:18 AM   #20
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Re: Who was a better counselor, Troi or Guinan?

Guinan seems to make people feel bad a lot of the time.

- beats worf at that phaser game while telling him he doesn't laugh enough
- pisses Riker off "Maybe you haven't heard. I tried to kill him yesterday!"
- tells Geordie to get a life in Galaxy's Child
- tells Yasha Yar she's supposed to be dead
- tells Picard that Tasha Yar's romulan kid in Redemption part 2 is his fault

Yeah I'd definitely be going to Troi over Guinan
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Old October 28 2013, 06:01 AM   #21
Lance
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Re: Who was a better counselor, Troi or Guinan?

Makarov wrote: View Post
Guinan seems to make people feel bad a lot of the time.

- beats worf at that phaser game while telling him he doesn't laugh enough
- pisses Riker off "Maybe you haven't heard. I tried to kill him yesterday!";
- tells Geordie to get a life in Galaxy's Child
- tells Yasha Yar she's supposed to be dead
- tells Picard that Tasha Yar's romulan kid in Redemption part 2 is his fault
Not to mention the following exchange, from GENERATIONS:

Picard: So I thought, you know, you might know something about the Nexus that can help us....

Guinan: That's some bad shit right there, Jean Luc. Some REAL bad shit. You don't wanna go in that Nexus thing. You'll never want to leave.

Picard: Well I don't know, I might be okay if I just....

Guinan: It's crack, captain. You hear me boy? The Nexus is crack cocaine. Jesus, do I need to spell this out to you?! You're gonna be in BIG trouble if you go near it. Trust me on this one.

Picard: What about the native life-forms on Veridian III?

Guinan: What about them?!

Picard: Well, I just don't think....

Guinan: Crack cocaine, Jean Luc. Just say NO.
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Old October 28 2013, 07:03 AM   #22
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Re: Who was a better counselor, Troi or Guinan?

I'd rather talk with Guinian about a problem than Troi. Nevermind personality issues, which Guinan wins with, but I just don't like the idea of of a therapist who can read my mind at any given time.
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Old October 28 2013, 01:22 PM   #23
Makarov
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Re: Who was a better counselor, Troi or Guinan?

GoRe Star wrote: View Post
I'd rather talk with Guinian about a problem than Troi. Nevermind personality issues, which Guinan wins with, but I just don't like the idea of of a therapist who can read my mind at any given time.
Why, isn't that what therapists try to do anyway?

In any case knowing TNG, there's a high probability of Troi's ability not working during your therapy session due to some plot convenience
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Old October 28 2013, 03:02 PM   #24
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Re: Who was a better counselor, Troi or Guinan?

J47 wrote: View Post
From what we were shown, Guinan would seem to have been better at her job than Troi ever was, but I think that's more the writer's fault than what was 'actually' the case on the ship. People will spill their heart to a bartender because of anonymity, and for that same reason the bartender will dispense advice, but a trained counselor is usually the way to go.
Not much chance of anonymity on a starship, even one with over 1000 people on board

I'd agree Guinan was a better written "counselor", official or not.
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Old October 28 2013, 04:29 PM   #25
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Re: Who was a better counselor, Troi or Guinan?

Let's be fair, we didn't see Troi in her counseling sessions all that much so it's hard to judge her based on her "always being on the bridge to tell us what the AOTW was feeling." That was likely a small part of her job and only did it as it's what Picard wanted. (and hardly a common bridge position.)

Given that she has a degree and/or license to practice as a counselor I'd say she is the better one.
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Old October 28 2013, 04:57 PM   #26
Jeyl
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Re: Who was a better counselor, Troi or Guinan?

(To Wesley)
Guinan: Shut up kid.

Guinan wins.
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Old October 29 2013, 12:39 AM   #27
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Re: Who was a better counselor, Troi or Guinan?

For a worldly advice, love and imaginary friends.... Guinan.

A professional opinion like trying to get over a dead loved one, Troi.
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Old October 29 2013, 12:46 AM   #28
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Re: Who was a better counselor, Troi or Guinan?

Put it this way: Guinan almost could have appeared in TOS. She is a kind of character everybody recognizes, and a lot of people like to talk to: a bartender. Bartenders are universal. They'll always be needed. They say things that make sense.

Troi? That's pedantic psychobabble all right, but it was Gene Roddenberry's. By the time TNG came around Gene was fully immersed in it. That's why the first season was so wishy-washy. Gene bought into all that. If not for that psychobabble, the writers would never have thought that a show set aboard a starship would need a 'counselor' in the first place.

Although: In the Voyager relaunch, there is a counselor as well, but it's a guy named Hugh Cambridge, who is apparently written to resemble Gregory House. Can you imagine HOUSE as your counselor?
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Old October 29 2013, 02:16 AM   #29
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Re: Who was a better counselor, Troi or Guinan?

`
Doctor Boyce: "Sometimes a man will tell his bartender things he'll never tell his doctor."


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Old October 29 2013, 11:14 PM   #30
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Re: Who was a better counselor, Troi or Guinan?

I wonder if Troi and Guinan hated eachother. Did they ever have scenes together? Racking my brain and coming up blank...

All I'm remembering is some scene where Guinan tells Troi she's going after her job.
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