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Old May 7 2007, 10:50 PM   #181
Reanok
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Re: Trip & T'Pol: The Good That They Do

I find Harbinger a guilty pleasure I enjoyed it. I do wonder about T'Pol's jealousy and posessiveness towards Trip and the way she reacted when she saw Trip & Amanda in the training session and her conversation with Amanda she was hurt that Trip would talk about his sister to Amanda and not with her.After all the weeks they spent in the Expanse I think some part of her felt hurt & Disappointed about him using Np on Amanda.I did like the banter in the scene with Trip & T'Pol it didn't bother when she said to Trip "You're attracted to me." And when she kissed him hiss . Trip was shocked and suprised beyond words.I think the Morning after scene could've been handled differently though when they had that conversation T'Pol was afraid of the strong feelings of attraction she has for Trip.His feelings were hurt by her rebuff but it seems there was going to be more than neroupressure was going on.
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Old May 7 2007, 10:57 PM   #182
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Re: Trip & T'Pol: The Good That They Do

Harbinger is a bit of a guilty pleasure of mine too. Sort of like Bound.

Also, in E2, old T’Pol indicated that the reason she pushed Trip away was because of the powerful and frightening emotions he caused her to feel.
I just wished that they'd shown us in the morning after scene and leading up to that talk with her future point instead of having to be told about it. Like, I wish that they'd given us some insight into T'Pol instead of just them avoiding each other, you know?
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Old May 7 2007, 11:30 PM   #183
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Re: Trip & T'Pol: The Good That They Do

I posted something like this a long while ago somewhere else:

I have mixed feelings about the morning-after scene. Truth is, I do think T'Pol was really scared about what had happened and that's why she backed away, but that still doesn't make me happy. It feels as if the writers wanted to get the issue of "will they/won't they" over already, so they made this entire episode just to get TnT in bed with no consequences afterwards. I don't like that at all. Poor Trip... The guy had every reason to feel used at that moment, even if T'Pol didn't mean it that way. I remember reading someone say that if the roles had been inverted and we had Trip telling T'Pol "Thanks for letting me explore Vulcan sexuality" or whatever, we'd think the guy was a total scumbag. He really did react rather well. Maybe it was because he sensed that T'Pol was scared or confused over what had just happened (I don't think he had a clue about the T-D). The way Trip manages to salvage the situation is awesome, "Doesn't mean we can't keep doing the neuro-pressure, though". Beautiful! And T'Pol's shifty eyes over the mug--still one of my favorite expressions on JB's face.

If it weren't for the final lines of "Doesn't mean we can't keep doing the NP" and T'Pol's reaction, this scene would have been everything I would not expect from two adults. I still think T'Pol was scared by what happened. But I do believe it wasn't just sex or "a one night stand" for either one of them. T'Pol senses this, she's not ready to deal with it, and backs away (as ttb mentioned, we later hear in "E2" that Trip stirrs strong emotions in her). Trip's hurt at first but somehow, this doesn't really click with what he knows about T'Pol and how she acts. He tests the waters and gets a reaction that lets him know that he's not being dismissed altogether, it was just a bit too much at the moment.
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Old May 7 2007, 11:36 PM   #184
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Re: Trip & T'Pol: The Good That They Do

Captain X said:
I have to disagree with you there. While some might have liked the banter between them just prior to the kiss and the robe drop, I found it silly.
I liked it. You knew they were going someplace with it and when she kisses him, he *amazingly enough* seemed to be the only one in all creation who was surprised. That never fails to amuse me.

Then the morning after just ruined everything. They were far to casual about it, which is why I call it one-night stand. Between the "exploration" comment from T'Pol and the "let's forget it ever happened" comment from Trip right before he suggested they keep up the VNP, it came off as a one-night stand of casual sex, and as I said, that really doesn't fit either character, but especially not T'Pol, I don't care how Trelled up she was.
Well, I don't think it was casual for either of them.
Trip looked pretty uncomfortable as he approached the table and sat down, looking around to see if anyone was watching them. After all, he knew from Malcolm that the gossip mills had been going full throttle of late.
He seemed to me to be uncertain about their "new" relationship and when she thanks him (CT's "aw, shucks, you don't have to thank me" delivery was pure gold! ) and dismisses it as a sexperiment, it does tick me off. T'Pol comes off as the proverbial "dog in a manger." The coy look after Trip suggests they keep with the VNP suggests they'll be getting together again when she feels the "seven year itch," but meanwhile, it totally demeans the characters and relationship for me (and launches the ridiculous "how old are these two?" angst that will inexcusably go on through most of season 4).

Not only that, but it really doesn't fit in with what happened later. Script note about the possibility of them screwing again or not, they didn't for the rest of that season. They only ever started getting comfortable with each other again in The Forgotten and Countdown. We know they stopped doing the VNP. It was just played completely wrong and it came off as really immature. If T'Pol had seemed bothered rather than coy, and Trip had shown that he was hurt and didn't know what to make of it, that would have fit with what came later better. But, I'd rather have had everything played out more maturely to begin with.
I'd go along with that. (See above)

Fortunately I have Foundations for that.
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Old May 8 2007, 05:37 AM   #185
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Re: Trip & T'Pol: The Good That They Do

*waves to the peeps*

Hi everybody! I don't come into this neck of the woods too often anymore but I was reading/lurking a little so I thought I'd say hi.
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Old May 8 2007, 05:29 PM   #186
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Re: Trip & T'Pol: The Good That They Do

Nice to see you again, kitkat!

My thoughts on Harbinger are more positive and light-hearted than the rest of y'all, I guess. For me, it isn't a guilty pleasure; it is simply a pleasure. I enjoyed the dialogue and the way it used subtext to reveal far more than was being said, and I thought the performances by Connor and Jolene were charming.


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Old May 9 2007, 04:49 PM   #187
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Re: Trip & T'Pol: The Good That They Do

Hi kitkat. Even if you're lurking, you can always enjoy the pics!


HopefulRomantic said:
My thoughts on Harbinger are more positive and light-hearted than the rest of y'all, I guess. For me, it isn't a guilty pleasure; it is simply a pleasure. I enjoyed the dialogue and the way it used subtext to reveal far more than was being said, and I thought the performances by Connor and Jolene were charming.

That's cool. I think others who have commented (including myself) also like certain things about it, especially the CT/JB interaction. Maybe we (or should I say "I") have just been falling into the tendency to perhaps focus on the stuff that could've been better instead of what worked. As a standalone T/T episode, it can be fun to watch.


From Monday's SciFi block, a few caps....


Hatchery:

A rare one of T/T standing together in the AV suits


Trip's and T'Pol's reaction to one of Archer's questionable comments



Trip uses n-p subterfuge to see T'Pol (who's confined to quarters) and update her on Archer's actions


T'Pol's reaction when Trip indicates they'll be thrown in the brig if Archer finds out what they're planning. (She's seems resolute and willing to take the risk.)


I guess Trip is too.



T'Pol in the uniform means business



From "Azati Prime," an increasingly erratic T'Pol heads for the shuttle bay, and a worried Trip follows....



From "Damage," T'Pol's shower "dream"



And a question for this set....Why did T'Pol have this particular dream (including the "zombie" part), and what did it mean?
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Old May 9 2007, 05:18 PM   #188
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Re: Trip & T'Pol: The Good That They Do

You know, that shower dream was really great up until they uglied up T'Pol. I still don't get Hollywood's obsession with doing stuff like that.
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Old May 9 2007, 05:48 PM   #189
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Re: Trip & T'Pol: The Good That They Do

I think it's curious that she dreams of showering with Trip. I would have preferred the writers had come up with Vulcan eroticism.
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Old May 9 2007, 06:10 PM   #190
Reanok
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Re: Trip & T'Pol: The Good That They Do

About T'Pol's dream in Damage I always wondered if T'Pol feared about losing her emotional control . About giving into her feelings for Trip and how it affected her.Because Phlox comments about Trip make it seem he thinks it was her feelings for him that she was afraid about how he made her feel things a Vulcan wasn't use to feeling.It not something that was easy for her to put into words.
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Old May 9 2007, 08:35 PM   #191
HopefulRomantic
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Re: Trip & T'Pol: The Good That They Do

Love the pictures as always, ttb. Several great additions to the Standing Together Collection...

Someone was kind enough to ask for the full size version of the avatar I entered in the episode contest this week. Here is a link.

I also made a version from the full screencap...



813 x 480 version
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Old May 9 2007, 08:57 PM   #192
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Re: Trip & T'Pol: The Good That They Do

Thanks HR
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Old May 9 2007, 09:03 PM   #193
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Re: Trip & T'Pol: The Good That They Do

Oooohh...that's purdy! :thumbsup:
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Old May 9 2007, 09:06 PM   #194
Reanok
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Re: Trip & T'Pol: The Good That They Do

Thanks Hopeful Romantic for that Picture of T'pol it is gorgeous and it conveys all the emotions she was feeling . :thumbsup:
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Old May 11 2007, 06:58 AM   #195
HopefulRomantic
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Re: Trip & T'Pol: The Good That They Do

Glad you like the T'Pol picture. I'm no boushh or Hoshi's sis, but I'm learning.

JiNX-01 said:
I think it's curious that she dreams of showering with Trip. I would have preferred the writers had come up with Vulcan eroticism.
"Vulcan eroticism"... oxymoron? Or maybe you're talking about a scene like the one from STIII when Saavik was doing that finger-touch thing with newly-reconstituted young Spock? They did a really good job with that, but ummmm...

tothebridge said:
And a question for this set....Why did T'Pol have this particular dream (including the "zombie" part), and what did it mean?
It seems that her subconscious self was fearing the worst regarding her use of trellium to access her emotions. Her fear appeared to be that too much emotion (symbolized by Trip), brought on by the trellium, might turn her into a madwoman who kills those closest to her-- like the zombie-Vulcans she found on the Seleya, who had been exposed to huge amounts of trellium and had gone mad and killed each other, killed their friends and colleagues.

My inference from this is that T'Pol has strong feelings for Trip, and those feelings frighten her, and that's why she may be subconsciously fearing that her emotions are becoming too strong.

Just for fun, I went to a dream analysis site and looked at the imagery used in T'Pol's nightmare. Disclaimer: The following is not the only interpretation of the imagery; I only went to one site. And I'm well aware that the analysis deals with human dreams and human-based imagery. But humans wrote the script, for viewing by humans. And when we do learn a bit about Vulcan emotions in the different Trek shows, they seem to line up with what humans are wrestling with. Hey, my pets clearly feel joy, grief, loneliness, embarrassment... they're not human, but I understand them.

So! On we go with the incredibly unscientific analysis!

Water symbolizes the unconscious, and the emotional state of mind. Running water denotes meditation on one's thoughts and emotions. Taking a shower can refer to spiritual renewal.

Nudity denotes the fear of being found out and exposed about one's activities. Metaphorically, clothes are a means of concealment, a way to hide one's identity or be someone else. But without them, one is left without any defenses.

Kissing denotes love, affection, tranquility, harmony, and contentment. [Awww. ]

To dream that you are amorous denotes that personal desires and illicit pleasures may land you into trouble. You will find yourself engulfed in scandal.

Dreaming about sex may be your libido's way of telling you that it's been too long since you have had sex. It may indicate repressed sexual desires and your needs for physical and emotional love. [Pretty straighforward, eh? ]


[Remember the specific shots of Trip rubbing T'Pol's neck, and T'Pol and Trip's feet?]

Your dream body represents your dream ego and your conscious identity. Specific body parts are only significant if they are different than usual.

Seeing the neck in a dream signifies the relationship between the mind/mental and the body/physical. It represents willpower, self-restriction and the need to control your feelings and keep them in check. The feet symbolize one's foundation, stability and sense of understanding. It signifies the need to be more practical and sensible.


A metamorphosis taking place in a dream denotes sudden and rapid changes in one's personal life. If the metamorphosis is a complicated and unpleasant one, then it suggests that the dreamer is ill prepared for the changes.

Exhibiting aggression in a dream may be a reflection of conflict in one's waking life. Killing someone forewarns that heavy stress may cause you to lose your temper and self-control. It can also indicate that you are putting an end to an old habit and your former ways of thinking; it can denote an end to an addiction; or it can represent some repressed aggression or rage at yourself or others.

Whew! Okay, school's out.
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