RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 144,661
Posts: 5,685,213
Members: 25,655
Currently online: 431
Newest member: jazmicors

TrekToday headlines

Retro Review: Time and Again
By: Michelle on Apr 25

USS Enterprise Model To Debut
By: T'Bonz on Apr 24

Vulcan Nimoy Tribute
By: T'Bonz on Apr 24

Pegg Writing Kickass Role For Elba
By: T'Bonz on Apr 23

Galaxy Quest To Become A Series
By: T'Bonz on Apr 22

Mulgrew On Voyager Twentieth Anniversary
By: T'Bonz on Apr 22

Shatner Starts New Website
By: T'Bonz on Apr 22

Rumor Mill: Star Trek III Title
By: T'Bonz on Apr 22

Siddig: Getting And Playing The Role Of Martell
By: T'Bonz on Apr 21

Mulgrew: Why Born With Teeth
By: T'Bonz on Apr 21


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > Enterprise

Enterprise The final frontier has a new beginning in this forum!

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old April 28 2007, 05:51 PM   #151
galleywest
oh yes I did
 
galleywest's Avatar
 
Location: hither and yon
Re: Trip & T'Pol: The Good That They Do

*sigh* I forgot what a great episode that was. I always kinda wondered what would have happened if Sim had survived. I have no doubt he would have just gone for it with T'Pol--I wonder how Trip would have felt about that?

Anyway, Jolene does a great job conveying the struggle she's having between her newly discovered emotions and her Vulcan emotional supression. You really see the cracks in the surface of her calm begin to show here. In hindsight, I think this was the episode where it became clear that her use of trellium was well beyond "experimental."

tothebridge said:
^^Was the review for one of your "Thin Man" stories? I really enjoyed that series -- it had the type of dynamic that would be fun to see between T/T on some type of mission during the book relaunch. Hmmm...maybe that review was one of those odd coincidences -- indicating that it's time for another story in your series.
Yes, it was a review of The Thin Man Beams Aboard. Thanks, I'm glad you liked it! If I could come up with another good plot I would write another one. I was never 100% satisfied with Thin Man Overboard. I think that could have been better. So I'd hate to go into it without a plot I just loved. It would most certainly be set before Trip's *cough* death. *cough*
__________________
Thank god for weird people.
galleywest is offline  
Old April 29 2007, 07:15 AM   #152
pookha
Admiral
 
pookha's Avatar
 
Location: pookha
View pookha's Twitter Profile
Re: Trip & T'Pol: The Good That They Do

there is a thread else where called how to kill koss.
well..

many many apologies to paul simon


the problem is my tradition and my mother she said to me
things have come to a head she said to me.
the answer must come about logically
i would like to help you in your struggle to be free
i replied.
i wish you to be with me.
i dont wont my meaning to be misconstrued.
for tradition and your mother there must be many ways to
kill your intended.
many ways to kill your intended

just slip him down a hill
or give him the wrong pill

you dont need to be afraid, you soon will have it made.
just get yourself free.

you dont have to discuss, just throw him under the bus


dont be late to throw him to the sehlat because that is his fate.

it grieves me to see you in such subtle pain
i wish there was a way to restore your peace of mind/
i wish to be kind.
she acknowledged this and replied.. please explain again
about the many ways to kill my intended.

take him out in the desert at night
before the morning light.
cast him to the le-matya and then run real fast
so the le-matya can break its fast

and then she kissed me and i realized i probabably was right.
there are many reasons to kill her intended
__________________
avatar by
?
pookha is offline  
Old April 29 2007, 05:57 PM   #153
tennisgirl
Captain
 
tennisgirl's Avatar
 
Re: Trip & T'Pol: The Good That They Do

Rock on, pookha!
__________________
Avatar by star

tennisgirl is offline  
Old April 29 2007, 08:41 PM   #154
Reanok
Commodore
 
Re: Trip & T'Pol: The Good That They Do

Tothebridge I love these Similtude pictures you picked out. galley west I enjoyed your Thinman stories they're fun to read.I'm looking forward to seeing Proving ground, Stratagem and Harbinger tomorrow.
Reanok is offline  
Old April 29 2007, 08:58 PM   #155
galleywest
oh yes I did
 
galleywest's Avatar
 
Location: hither and yon
Re: Trip & T'Pol: The Good That They Do

^^ Rrrreow--who isn't?!

Think up a good plot for the next Thin Man story. I need help, my muse went on extended vacation.
__________________
Thank god for weird people.
galleywest is offline  
Old April 30 2007, 12:27 AM   #156
kalysto
Captain
 
kalysto's Avatar
 
Re: Trip & T'Pol: The Good That They Do

galleywest said:
Sorry to reply to my own message. Irony of ironies, though--just as I'm getting back into TnT, I get a bot from fanfiction.net. Someone read and reviewed one of my old TnT stories! How funny is that?


That was me ! Small world. I sure hope the muse catches you again sometime soon.

Also, those caps are gorgeous.
kalysto is offline  
Old April 30 2007, 01:57 AM   #157
HopefulRomantic
Phloxist moderator
 
HopefulRomantic's Avatar
 
Location: feeding the cats again
Re: Trip & T'Pol: The Good That They Do

Thanks for the beautiful pictures as always, tothebridge.

And pookha... brava! *tossing roses onto the stage*
__________________
"It's late, I'm tired, and there's so much left to do." ~Ernst Stavro Blofeld, Diamonds Are Forever
HopefulRomantic is offline  
Old April 30 2007, 04:16 AM   #158
Reanok
Commodore
 
Re: Trip & T'Pol: The Good That They Do

In answer to Tothebridege's comments about Future Enterprise books.
Pookha bravo for that song. :thumbsup:
Reanok is offline  
Old April 30 2007, 04:17 PM   #159
galleywest
oh yes I did
 
galleywest's Avatar
 
Location: hither and yon
Re: Trip & T'Pol: The Good That They Do

kalysto said:
galleywest said:
Sorry to reply to my own message. Irony of ironies, though--just as I'm getting back into TnT, I get a bot from fanfiction.net. Someone read and reviewed one of my old TnT stories! How funny is that?
That was me ! Small world. I sure hope the muse catches you again sometime soon.

Also, those caps are gorgeous.
Hey, thanks! I sent you a reply via fanfiction.net. If I do write anything, it would be set before TATV, that's for sure. And it would completely ignore TATV, by the way (at least the part about their relationship ending after Elizabeth's death). I don't write angst.

Can't wait to see where the books take us now--I'm glad they chose a direction that allows them so many options.
__________________
Thank god for weird people.
galleywest is offline  
Old April 30 2007, 08:58 PM   #160
tothebridge
Fleet Captain
 
Location: Colorado, U.S.
Re: Trip & T'Pol: The Good That They Do

Very nice, pookha!


galleywest said:
Can't wait to see where the books take us now--I'm glad they chose a direction that allows them so many options.
Yes, me too. And one thing I forgot to mention before...



*sigh* I forgot what a great episode that was. I always kinda wondered what would have happened if Sim had survived. I have no doubt he would have just gone for it with T'Pol--I wonder how Trip would have felt about that?
One of the appealing things about Sim was his openness and innocence. That makes sense to some degree since he "grew up" very quickly and probably didn't have time to develop some of the filters, barriers, etc. that others sometimes do in the interests of tact, manners, and self-protection.

However, the other side of the coin is that he hadn't necessarily had the types of experiences that sometimes help adults to understand and manage their emotions effectively. If he had lived longer, presumably he could've gained those experiences, but I really wonder if at the point of the episode, he would've had the emotional maturity to pursue a serious relationshp. That's one reason I thought that Sim's "serious" feelings for T'Pol were probably primarily Trip's feelings. It didn't seem that Sim had spent enough time with T'Pol to develop feelings that deep, and I wonder if he would've interpreted them that way without the benefit of Trip's "memories."

Of course, that's where some of the science gets sort of murky -- the question of how Sim could've accessed not only Trip's memories but also the feelings associated with them.



Anyway, Jolene does a great job conveying the struggle she's having between her newly discovered emotions and her Vulcan emotional supression. You really see the cracks in the surface of her calm begin to show here. In hindsight, I think this was the episode where it became clear that her use of trellium was well beyond "experimental."
You bring up a good point and it reminds me of something I was thinking about recently. Did anyone ever work out the timeline of when T'Pol started taking the trellium? In what episodes was she supposedly injecting the trellium? Phlox mentions that she took it for three months. And since "Azati Prime" takes place sometime in January, I guess that means she would've started on the trellium in the previous October timeframe. But it's not really clear to me what episodes fall within that window -- although there could be some references to the passage of time that I don't recall.

And going back to "Similitude," why did T'Pol get "emotional" about Sim's revelation? And who was she kissing near the end, Sim, Trip, or both?
tothebridge is offline  
Old May 1 2007, 02:21 AM   #161
tennisgirl
Captain
 
tennisgirl's Avatar
 
Re: Trip & T'Pol: The Good That They Do

tothebridge said:
And going back to "Similitude," why did T'Pol get "emotional" about Sim's revelation?
Hmmm, really good question. I hadn't thought about that reaction separately... I don't really know if it was the Trellium or not. Sim's declaration is pretty strong all by itself... I think part of it is due to the fact that T'Pol doesn't exactly know how to respond to or act around Sim. At the beginning of the episode we can see that Trip and T'Pol have reached a pretty good level in their friendship. The conversation and their body language during the VNP is very natural and they seem very at ease. When T'Pol deals with Sim, she is always very polite but she keeps a certain distance. When Sim comes along and talks to T'Pol about how she's all he can think about and that he doesn't know if this is all coming from him or if this has to do with trip as well, something clicks in T'Pol's mind. IMHO, up to this stage, T'Pol doesn´t know she likes Trip in that special way . When Sim comes along and declares this to her, he doesn't only let her know how Trip feels (and I do think these are Trip's feelings being reflected by Sim because of what he says here and how Trip acts later in Harbinger), but he also says something that makes T'Pol realize what's really going on in that pretty mind of hers in regards to Trip. And it shocks her almost to tears... Did I make any sense?

And who was she kissing near the end, Sim, Trip, or both?
*sigh* Both... Because of what she later says in Harbinger, I take it T'Pol took Sim's previous words and her conclusion was that Trip is attracted to her (clever girl, huh?). So, when Sim is about to go away, she needs to tell him that she appreciates his sacrifice, but she also knows that if something goes wrong, she will be losing Trip as well. And she kisses him as the music swells in the back... Great scene...
__________________
Avatar by star

tennisgirl is offline  
Old May 1 2007, 06:53 AM   #162
pookha
Admiral
 
pookha's Avatar
 
Location: pookha
View pookha's Twitter Profile
Re: Trip & T'Pol: The Good That They Do

thanks guys..
maybe i need to another fractured episode again..

as for the trellium
harbinger is in december so she would be taking it by then.
but we dont know the amounts. at this time she at times is a little more emotional off duty but on duty she is still normal.

she at this time may have viewed it as the same way as the beer that jon and trip drank together./

i still wish they had either not done this and just had used a combination of the expanse interferring with a vulcans ability to medtate or use the panar.

but one thing i like they had the scene in rajiin before she is exposed to the massive amount of trellium in impuse.

tothebridge i agree alot about what you said about sim.,
he hasnt lived though the actual experiences of the memories and i believe it is one reason he is so much bolder then trip.
trip has gone through things that made him the way he was but if you dont have the experience of living through it second by second some depth is lost even if the basic feelings are there.

galleywest one way to deal with the thing is that even the tng section was fake. made by supporters of admiral pressman to discredit riker.

ps
this is an imcomplete chronology

here
__________________
avatar by
?
pookha is offline  
Old May 1 2007, 07:08 AM   #163
HopefulRomantic
Phloxist moderator
 
HopefulRomantic's Avatar
 
Location: feeding the cats again
Re: Trip & T'Pol: The Good That They Do

tothebridge said:
You bring up a good point and it reminds me of something I was thinking about recently. Did anyone ever work out the timeline of when T'Pol started taking the trellium? In what episodes was she supposedly injecting the trellium? Phlox mentions that she took it for three months. And since "Azati Prime" takes place sometime in January, I guess that means she would've started on the trellium in the previous October timeframe. But it's not really clear to me what episodes fall within that window -- although there could be some references to the passage of time that I don't recall.
The timestamp for Countdown is February 13, 2154, so counting backwards from there for when Azati Prime took place, would that put it more around the 1st of February...?

If that's true (others will have this better figured out than me), that might have T'Pol starting up the trellium later, say, in November 2153... perhaps the time of Similitude. At least, that's the way I've thought of it. T'Pol's time with Sim, and her discovery that Sim (and by implication, Trip) had deep feelings for her, might be reason enough to ingest a substance that would enable her to more easily access her emotions.

And going back to "Similitude," why did T'Pol get "emotional" about Sim's revelation?
I think T'Pol's stunned reaction goes back to what was being discussed here earlier about the NP session during Rajiin. T'Pol seems to consider Trip a colleague and friend, and discusses the relationship issue in purely hypothetical terms. If Trip does have feelings for her, they're subconscious, so he's being all gentlemanly and sweet. They both stay carefully clueless, until Sim tells T'Pol "You're all I think about..." and suddenly it all adds up for her, kapow, with Trip in a coma, near death. And we all know T'Pol's emotions have always been close to the surface, even without trellium. And perhaps T'Pol is realizing she might have feelings for him too, and the idea scares the heck out of her.

And who was she kissing near the end, Sim, Trip, or both?
I've always thought she was kissing Sim, because of what she told him: "I just wanted to say how much your absence will affect the crew... how much it will affect me." From this, I think she had developed enough feelings for Sim that she realized she would miss him after he was gone, even with Trip well and whole again. I don't think this is the prevailing perspective at all but I think the kiss wasn't "good-bye" so much as it was T'Pol showing Sim that she returned his affection on some level. At least, that's how I think Sim regarded it, no matter what he actually called it. That's why it's my favorite T/T (well, you know what I mean) kiss.


Hey, speaking of Similitude... and T/T... I made a music video. I've been putting off learning how doing it for months, but last week I decided to go for it.

Epiphany - 8 MB (right click to save)

Epiphany - 16.5 MB (click on "Request download link", then right click on "Download file" in upper right corner to save)

Many thanks to the feedback I received from boushh and tennisgirl while I was figuring out how to make the thing.

Enjoy.
__________________
"It's late, I'm tired, and there's so much left to do." ~Ernst Stavro Blofeld, Diamonds Are Forever
HopefulRomantic is offline  
Old May 1 2007, 07:55 AM   #164
Captain X
Rear Admiral
 
Location: I'm nutty!
Re: Trip & T'Pol: The Good That They Do

tothebridge said:
And who was she kissing near the end, Sim, Trip, or both?
A little of both, but mostly for her. She's just been confronted with a lot from someone she's been going out of her way to avoid, lest she become attached to Sim because he would be dead within a couple weeks at the most (convieniently). I can't really say for sure if she'd thought of Trip *that* way because of how surprised she seemed, though she seemed open to the possibility in a previous episode when Trip brought up the gossip. It could be that she hadn't really thought of it or it could be she never thought he'd be open to anything beyond friendship because of how bothered he was when he brought up the gossip.

Anyway, the kiss was for her own closure, at least what little she could get. Sim was a dead man, and he was giving up his life to save Trip's, albeit not voluntarily, and here she's been giving him the cold shoulder the whole time while he's had all of those feelings inside of him. I think she also realizes that those feelings were from Trip, as evidenced in Harbinger, and even though Sim is going to die to try to save him, nothing is certain, and now she knows, and short of going to sickbay and to Trip, this is as close as she could get. I honestly think she was speaking to both men when she mentions how much his abence will affect her. Afterwards she seems to regret this and she starts to avoid Trip when he's alive and well.
Captain X is offline  
Old May 3 2007, 01:41 AM   #165
tothebridge
Fleet Captain
 
Location: Colorado, U.S.
Re: Trip & T'Pol: The Good That They Do

^^HR, lovely video. I really like how all the moments sort of build on each other to the “epiphany” at the end.


pookha, thanks for the link. I think that timeline for ENT S3 actually fits pretty well. In “The Expanse” episode, ENT returns to Earth after the Xindi probe attack around April 24, 2153. It was projected to take about 3 months to reach the coordinates FG provided (presumably to reach the Expanse) and after they entered the Expanse, another 3 months passed leading up to “The Shipment.” So, if ENT left Earth in late April (at the earliest), the events of “The Shipment” probably would’ve occurred in October.


HopefulRomantic said:
The timestamp for Countdown is February 13, 2154, so counting backwards from there for when Azati Prime took place, would that put it more around the 1st of February...?
I did it another way and counted forward from “Strategem,” which had a log date of Dec. 12. During that episode, someone (maybe T’Pol?) said it would take about three weeks to reach Azati Prime. It actually took longer because the date for “Hatchery,” (which immediately precedes “Azati Prime”) is Jan. 8. I wouldn’t think it would take much longer than four or five weeks, though, to reach Azati Prime, so I place that episode somewhere around mid-January, 2154, which suggests that T’Pol might’ve started taking the trellium in mid-October.

Still, as T’Pol herself said, she started to inject only small amounts initially and was able to control the emotions that she accessed, so nailing the timing down exactly probably wouldn't change much about how I view her behavior in those episodes -- it didn’t seem that the trellium was affecting her command abilities or her work -- although in hindsight, there were a few glimpses of emotions in episodes like Similitude, Proving Ground, and Harbinger.


Re: the question of why T’Pol became so emotional in “Similitude,” I agree with much of what’s already been said.

I do think that the sincerity and sentiment behind Sim’s confession affected T’Pol. But like HR and tennisgirl indicated, I think she also was stunned by the idea that Trip might have feelings for her. I think T’Pol realized that her relationship with Trip had changed and they were relating to each other more easily and comfortably, but I doubt she had analyzed the implications with any degree of depth and if she reflected on it at all, she probably would’ve simply acknowledged that the time spent was beneficial to them both. However, the realization that Trip might have feelings for her changed the context of their interactions and probably made T’Pol look at the dynamic between them in a different way. And I suspect this would cause a range of emotions for her, including uncertainty, fear and a perhaps a feeling of something lost.

Re: the kiss, I interpreted it as being for both Sim and Trip. Like others, I think T’Pol had developed some level of feeling for Sim and was appreciative of his sacrifice. But I also think she was drawn to Sim because of certain characteristics he shared with Trip. And Sim’s confession brought an awareness of Trip’s potential feelings as well as the question of what emotions/feelings she was experiencing. So, the kiss seemed like an acknowledgement of feelings for both men and also of the possibility that she would lose/miss both.

Edited for date correction.
tothebridge is offline  
Closed Thread

Bookmarks

Tags
romance

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 08:29 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.