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The Next Generation All Good Things come to an end...but not here.

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Old March 13 2007, 09:02 PM   #16
Squiggy
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Re: How long until TNG: Remastered?

Count said:
My first post here

Matt said:
With the 20th anniversary of Star Trek The Next Generation at hand, and the original series being remastered at this very moment with many episodes completed, I'm wondering if as soon as they complete the TOS remastering if they'll jump right on TNG?

The effects in TNG are still good enough for our era. Much of what we saw, like with TOS, was state of the art at the time, but converting TNG to 1080P HDTV suitable video might be a task.

Does anyone recall what TNG was shot on? Was it film, or tape? I remember at least all the effects were done via tape, which means that unfortunately those shots can't have much more detail to pull out of them in an upconversion.

The original Enterprise-D model was magestic to look at on TV. Tons of detail, yet sleek and realistic - Showing it's grace and size at the same time... The second model was a horse of a different color. It was beautiful, but the smaller scale and amount of sharp detail they added to it was very different than the original D.

The reason they scaled it smaller, to my knowledge, was so they could film more dramatic angles, because of the size and weight of the original made certain shots impossible. (I think.)

Anyway, with a digital model, they could duplicate to perfection the original Enterprise-D model, AND have all the detail that was lost on standard television revived via 1080P HDTV... The best of both worlds, pardon my pun. Smooth AND detailed.

OKAY, now onto the effects and shots of TNG...

Many ship shots appear with a glowing halo around the ships. I don't know if this was a problem with keying, or if it was a desired effect. It's very prominent in shots of the Romulan Warbird.



Because of some problem with either scaling or compositing, or perhaps some effects they added to it in post, all the ships appeared blurred and slightly glowing.

Also, the lighting is incorrect, coming from the wrong side.

TNG had more effects shots than TOS, so each episode of TNG would easily take twice as long and twice as much money to update.

There are MANY reused shots in TNG, however. For example, there are two well known shots of the Enterprise at warp. One shot is a closeup of the side of the Enterprise D, where you see the 'neck' while the ship is at warp.

Even the purists do have to admit that the Enterprise-D by Gabriel Köerner as it appears in Star Trek Enterprise's finale looks marvelous in comparison to the studio model, just because of the way the lights and shadows hit it, and the camera angles you can easily achieve with CG.

Anyway, with the success and wide appreciation of the TOS remastering, I think a TNG remastering is on the way. Hopefully the series was shot on film, so they can re-scan the film and convert it to HDTV soon.
First two seasons were shot on video, the last 5 were shot on film, which is why Evolution looked so much different in quality compared to Shades of Grey.
Actually...no. No Trek were shot on video until Enterprise season 2 (I think). Seasons 2 and 3 look different because of a new cinematographer who brought in a different lighting scheme.
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Old March 13 2007, 09:31 PM   #17
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Re: How long until TNG: Remastered?

IMDB says:

Camera
Panavision Cameras and Lenses
Film negative format (mm/video inches)
35 mm
Cinematographic process
Spherical
Printed film format
Video (NTSC)
Aspect ratio
1.33 : 1
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Old March 13 2007, 09:44 PM   #18
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Re: How long until TNG: Remastered?

One day, we will all watch all series (and movies) on a Holodeck.

I hope I will still be alive by then.
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Old March 14 2007, 11:28 PM   #19
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Re: How long until TNG: Remastered?

^ With the US Military working on simulator chambers similar to holodecks, it's possible you may if the tech is permitted for private use.

Though I don't think you'd be able to afford it for your home. No offense is meant by that, but I'd assume the technology would be in the ballpark that only Bill Gates could afford it.
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Old March 15 2007, 10:59 PM   #20
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Re: How long until TNG: Remastered?

‘Twas my understanding that principle photography from TNG, DS9, and Voyager were all shot on 35mm film, but they were compiled and edited in 480i standard definition video. Perhaps more importantly than that, all special effects were rendered in 480i standard definition video as well.

If that’s the case, then to get TNG, DS9, or Voyager in HD, one would have to go back to the original source footage (the film) and it would have to be re-edited, while the effects would have to be re-rendered from scratch. Not an impossible task (if they go the CGI route for FX), but Paramount may not do it if they don't believe it would be cost effective.
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Old March 16 2007, 05:20 PM   #21
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Re: How long until TNG: Remastered?

Commander Dan said:
‘Twas my understanding that principle photography from TNG, DS9, and Voyager were all shot on 35mm film, but they were compiled and edited in 480i standard definition video. Perhaps more importantly than that, all special effects were rendered in 480i standard definition video as well.

If that’s the case, then to get TNG, DS9, or Voyager in HD, one would have to go back to the original source footage (the film) and it would have to be re-edited, while the effects would have to be re-rendered from scratch. Not an impossible task (if they go the CGI route for FX), but Paramount may not do it if they don't believe it would be cost effective.
You are correct, and every time one of these posts gets started, somebody has to step up and explain it again. I'm glad it was you this time, not me.

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Old March 16 2007, 11:11 PM   #22
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Re: How long until TNG: Remastered?

I just want to know how wide the aspect was that they shot it on film? Was it 1.37:1? Or did they use an anamorphic lens to widen it (for some reason)?
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Old March 17 2007, 11:47 PM   #23
Doug Otte
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Re: How long until TNG: Remastered?

DizzyMan said:
I just want to know how wide the aspect was that they shot it on film? Was it 1.37:1? Or did they use an anamorphic lens to widen it (for some reason)?
In one of the previous threads about this topic, somebody posted a shot of a replicator from TNG. The shot was re-used in the Enterprise finale, and it was in widescreen (approx. 1.85:1, I guess) and showed that its use in TNG had been cropped on the sides. So, I guess the original shots were filmed wider than we saw, and could be used to create widescreen episodes. Who knows if the additional info in all the footage is "clean" though (no booms, wires, etc.)?

Doug
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Old March 18 2007, 12:41 AM   #24
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Re: How long until TNG: Remastered?

Doug Otte said:
In one of the previous threads about this topic, somebody posted a shot of a replicator from TNG. The shot was re-used in the Enterprise finale, and it was in widescreen (approx. 1.85:1, I guess) and showed that its use in TNG had been cropped on the sides. So, I guess the original shots were filmed wider than we saw, and could be used to create widescreen episodes.
Not necessarily. If the original shot was a panning shot — where the camera moves to one side after showing the replicator working — then they could easily create a wide shot from the footage (by stitching two screen caps together).

Doug Otte said:
Who knows if the additional info in all the footage is "clean" though (no booms, wires, etc.)?
That wouldn't be such a big deal. If there were boom mikes, cables etc in the footage, it would only be in a few shots, it certainly wouldn't be the norm. And wires and boom mikes are extremely easy to remove from the picture under normal circumstances. There are very few types of shot, and very few types of object, that would be hard to remove. In rare cases when something heavily obstructed a very complicated background that could not be recreated from any source, then you could always crop the shot down as a last resort. But there aren't going to be that many very difficult scenes.

I'm not holding out much hope for there being any 'missing footage' from the sides of TNG though. Unfortunately, it's just too fanciful to be true. But if it was true, I would be so excited about it. It would make TNG stunning to watch. Certainly, the Enterprise D was made for widescreen. Ten forward was made for widescreen. Everything was! (Apart from the Borg cube )

I know people argue that it was never intended to be seen that way, and the compositioning of the shot will not be true to the director's orders — but I say "to hell with the director's orders!" A widescreen TNG would be amazing. Babylon 5 was never intended to be seen in full widescreen, but the widescreen DVD is amazing. (B5 was filmed in widescreen.) If B5 can do it, TNG certainly can.
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Old March 18 2007, 05:50 AM   #25
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Re: How long until TNG: Remastered?

DizzyMan said:
Doug Otte said:
In one of the previous threads about this topic, somebody posted a shot of a replicator from TNG. The shot was re-used in the Enterprise finale, and it was in widescreen (approx. 1.85:1, I guess) and showed that its use in TNG had been cropped on the sides. So, I guess the original shots were filmed wider than we saw, and could be used to create widescreen episodes.
Not necessarily. If the original shot was a panning shot — where the camera moves to one side after showing the replicator working — then they could easily create a wide shot from the footage (by stitching two screen caps together).

They're the same shot - it pans away from the replicator and across Ten Forward. The "Enterprise" episode uses the TNG shot and replaces some of the foreground elements.
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Old March 18 2007, 07:11 AM   #26
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Re: How long until TNG: Remastered?

DizzyMan said:
Babylon 5 was never intended to be seen in full widescreen, but the widescreen DVD is amazing. (B5 was filmed in widescreen.) If B5 can do it, TNG certainly can.
I believe the B5 folks made an effort to film things in such a way as to allow for widescreen. They saw the trend coming, and they planned accordingly. Also, as I recall, they used something along the lines of Super 35 which allows for easier switches from box shots to widescreen (in fact, each version--box shot and widescreen--showed slightly different parts of the image recorded).
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Old March 18 2007, 08:18 AM   #27
Oso Blanco
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Re: How long until TNG: Remastered?

drasche said:
One day, we will all watch all series (and movies) on a Holodeck.

I hope I will still be alive by then.
I hope I don't. If the trend continues, Star Trek and all its incarnations will be remastered to death by the point that holo technology will be available for the average viewer.

I really don't like all this messing around with old movies or tv shows. Why can't we enjoy them as they are, they are documents of their respective times!

I mean, do we really need to bring everything up to todays production standards? Surely some old books cannot keep up with todays use of language, but does any sane mind would want to have them re-written?

I wouldn't object to TNG/DS9/VGR in widescreen, thought. But only if it was completely unchanged ... no new FX or other fancy "improvements".
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Old March 18 2007, 10:00 AM   #28
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Re: How long until TNG: Remastered?

I really don't like all this messing around with old movies or tv shows. Why can't we enjoy them as they are, they are documents of their respective times!

I mean, do we really need to bring everything up to todays production standards? Surely some old books cannot keep up with todays use of language, but does any sane mind would want to have them re-written?
You can keep right on watching your old versions if you choose. Personally there's a LOT of things they could fix.

Like that ship that attacked the Enterprise in "The Survivors" it looks SO fake.

Also they could improve the few battles we saw. For example in "Yesterday's Enterprise" was a great battle sequence, but it's so static, they basically stand still and shoot 2 phaser beams.

Just imagine if they redid those shots and make it look like a REAL battle, how much more they would enhance the episode.

Not to mention smaller things, like the quality of the planet graphics (compare planets shown in Season 2 to Season 6, HUGE difference)


I think TNG will eventually do get remastered, since I think once they have a TOS-R DVD Set it will fly off the shelves. TNG will be the same, and I will be a customer once it happens.
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Old March 18 2007, 11:18 AM   #29
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Re: How long until TNG: Remastered?

The scenery thread in GenTrek reminded me of one thing that bugged me every time it happened.

Any shot facing out towards an open shuttlebay...there is never any of the ship visible outside, and the shuttlebay opening is perfectly vertical, unlike the exterior doors. And before anyone chimes in with, "The doors can close at an angle without it being the same inside" there was never any extension to the floor either. It's a straight drop-off right outside the opening.

Anyway, just a model vs set inconsistancy that would be cool if fixed.


It'd be cool to have Ten Forward featured on the model right from the start, too.
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Old March 18 2007, 01:49 PM   #30
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Re: How long until TNG: Remastered?

Tosk said:Any shot facing out towards an open shuttlebay...there is never any of the ship visible outside
Actually normally you would see the warp nacelles when looking out of the window of the observation lounge.
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