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Old August 3 2006, 10:06 PM   #76
Vagabond
Lieutenant Commander
 
Re: Deck Plans V: The Not-So-Final Go Around

Hi, first post here obviously.

I wanted to comment on a couple of things since they struck me as interesting:

I like the work, even if I dont agree with some of your ideas (the sunken bridge and the two engine rooms, for example)
I kinda like the work as well. I have not been a fan of the old blueprints and appreciate the effort to make a more correct set.

That said, I do like the sunken bridge idea since I never could figure out why there was an encircling corridor beyond the bridge that essentially has nothing more than a restroom and a set of stairs. A sunken bridge at least gives easier access to the overhead bridge panels for maintenance and repair, so that idea is actually pretty nifty.

I love the "subspace antenna" interpretation of the cylinder behind the bridge, eliminating it from the turbolift argument!
Well, it seems to work ok and the specific turbolift entrance to the maintenance corridor does keep repair traffic off of the bridge, so that idea works as well.

BTW, i assume the logic for two engine rooms is similar to the logic of two engine rooms on a warship: in the event of battle if operations need to be transferred over because of damage, there is a second room with which to control operations.
Actually, isn't that really just a definition for Auxiliary Control - where the Enterprise seems to be most vulnerable to takeover? Auxiliary Control is on deck 8 isn't it?

Capt. Robert April; I was wondering since you seem to be one who is interested in accuracy to the series rather than fandom itself (which results in alot of grief when they don't mesh) as to if you might be interested in some particulars I have that are... in the same vein as your attempts?

I can say that Mr. Jein would definately not be happy with me - as a start.
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Old August 4 2006, 06:23 AM   #77
Captain Robert April
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Re: Deck Plans V: The Not-So-Final Go Around

Do tell...
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Old August 4 2006, 07:57 AM   #78
Vagabond
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Re: Deck Plans V: The Not-So-Final Go Around

Tell?
Here? In this thread?

I was thinking something else, especially since this would not be relevant to this particular topic.

You are attempting to create a "more correct" (albeit fudged with other information sources) view of the Enterprise interiors.

I work with information in a broader sense.
By 'same vein', I mean non-adherence to fan expectations.

As for Mr. Jein; I disagree with his conclusions regarding nomenclature completely (among many other things I disagree with in fandom - including the entire nature of NCC numbering - which initself would call the Wrath of Khan upon me).

I'll preface with this caveat:
I do not attempt to "make things fit even if I have to fudge it". I go by what I am given, and I go only by TOS (I exclude even the movies - this means for me that the work-bee pods in your schematics are right out, but that's a personal issue).

I am partial to the animated Trek quite a bit as well FWIW.

------

But, back on topic; it's good that you are using as accurate schematics as possible to begin with. How long has this project been going on?

I was wondering where the Ion Pod (your Sensor Pods?) is located since it plays such an important role in an episode and must be jettisoned.

It's nice to see the Phasers and Torpedoes both located in the lower section of the primary hull where they are shown to be in the series, rather than in funky little nubs and generally not having things in places were they absolutely should not be.
Thanks for that!

Not so sure about the escape pods though. Seems too TNGish for my tastes - same for forward observation lounge, warp plasma and the ejection shaft for the matter/anti-matter core (the whole core idea itself really). Actually there are alot of items on your schematics that are either directly Movie related or TNG and beyond specific. But, hey, it's better than what is currently given, so props for that.

I'd love to see someone do *just* TOS information schematics. I would, but I have no artistic skill there.

Kudos to those here that do! :thumbsup:

How often are your plans updated?
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Old August 4 2006, 08:47 AM   #79
Captain Robert April
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Re: Deck Plans V: The Not-So-Final Go Around

If I were to only go by what was in the original series, we'd end up with a very weird ship, because the technical data within the confines of the show is actually rather sparse, vague, and sometimes downright contradictory. Look at the Star Trek universe as a whole, however, and avoid the pitfalls of TOS snobbery and certain things tend to fall into line and allow one to make better sense of the aforementioned technical data from the original show (or at least cook up reasonable explanations for most of the more oddball references).

To answer the specific questions, this project has been going on for a few years, with some fits and starts and some periods of sustained progress (unfortunately, it's currently stuck in one of the fits).

The ion pods are in the small hangar bay just aft of the bridge, and are deployed via a large umbilical (something like a clothes dryer hose around three or four feet in diameter). In the circumstances described in "Court Martial", Finney would have sild down the umbilical from the pod back into the ship before the pod was jettisoned, whereupon he jumped into the nearby turbolift and hid out for the bulk of the episode.

Regarding the phasers, I'm not assuming that those are the only phasers the ship is armed with ("Balance of Terror" makes direct reference to midship and aft phasers). The forward banks are just the most prominent and the most powerful (and ENT's "In A Mirror, Darkly" quite clearly dealt with the issue of aft weapons, so I've included them too, in the areas that seemed most logical and closest to what was shown on screen and still worked). Other phaser emitters would be on other nondecript parts of the hull, and not especially relevant for the plans, since they're for familiarization purposes for newly assigned personnel who presumably wouldn't need to know about such things (unless their job required it, in which case, they'd be given more detailed information from their supervisor).

Regarding the escape pods and the workbee: This is the Enterprise, not the Titanic. There's gonna be some emergency egress systems in place for the crew (plus it helps explain that rust colored half-ring on the upper surface of the saucer). As for the workbee, it's a pretty straightforward technical design, and something like a workbee would be like a forklift or front end loader; the controls and some of the internal systems may change over time, but the overall design is gonna stay the same (apparently, Petri Bloomqvist feels the same way, since he was the one I stole the idea from of that workbee docking bay under the main hangar bay).
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Old August 4 2006, 09:38 AM   #80
Vagabond
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Re: Deck Plans V: The Not-So-Final Go Around

If I were to only go by what was in the original series, we'd end up with a very weird ship
You mean like only 1 transporter (don't recall Kirk saying transporter room 4 or 8 or 27 or whatever, it was always simply "transporter room") and things like that?
Not so weird.

Look at the Star Trek universe as a whole
No, thanks.
Too many things throughout the movies, TNG and beyond are just simply *wrong*!

In keeping with the "Wagontrain to the Stars" theme, the old girl, 1701, was a big, bad iron-horse Harley-Davidson. TNG and beyond rode on stubborn mules.
That's just for starters!

avoid the pitfalls of TOS snobbery
I'll remain a snob (and proud of it), thanks again.
Why drink wine-coolers when I can have champagne?

---

Thanks for the answers! :thumbsup:
Kinda what I was figuring, going on what I was seeing in your schematics. Still interested in how this turns out, regardless. Sorry it seems to have hit a snag.
Hope things pick up.
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Old August 6 2006, 08:32 PM   #81
Captain Robert April
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Re: Deck Plans V: The Not-So-Final Go Around

Another aspect to keep in mind with these plans is that they're made with the intent of, at some point, having them published by Pocket Books, so it has to take the other shows into account, at least peripherally. So far, the only reference to "Enterprise" is a quote of Archer in the introduction of the Technical Primer, which I also need to work on.

So, as tempting as it may be, I really can't afford to be too much of a TOS snob. I have to keep in mind what comes after this ship, and as much as my digestion can tolerate, what came before.
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Old August 6 2006, 09:42 PM   #82
Vagabond
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Re: Deck Plans V: The Not-So-Final Go Around

Hope the Pocket Books thing works out! :thumbsup:

No worries, like I said I'm all for it ("more accurate").
It's not a make/break point for me on the issues I mentioned, those were just points that bothered *me* personally. I liked quite a few of your ideas though if that's any consolation.
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Old August 7 2006, 01:17 AM   #83
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Re: Deck Plans V: The Not-So-Final Go Around

Getting these published by Pocket Books sounds like an admirable goal, especially with a new movie on the horizon. Good luck with that. But until then, let's see if we can get out of the primary hull before this thread has it's (hopefully avoidable) warp core breach.
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Old August 7 2006, 04:46 AM   #84
Captain Robert April
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Re: Deck Plans V: The Not-So-Final Go Around

Once I get those turboshafts plotted out, that'll be a big ol' hurdle out of the way...
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Old August 11 2006, 07:32 AM   #85
Captain Robert April
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Location: In selfless service to fandom, on the road to becoming a Star Trek trivia god...
Re: Deck Plans V: The Not-So-Final Go Around

Rather than further screw up the shuttlecraft thread, I'll post Bjo's latest reply here...

Ohmighod! Don't these people have anything more to do than worry where a stupid woodshop was located? And why do they think AMT build AND paid for the original? Outside companies just don't do that. But then, there is always someone to speak authoritatively. When that happens, I just say, "gee, you may be right" and walk away from what suddenly becomes a deadly dull conversation. I can't think of anyone who can refute this because Bob is too ill to bother and Matt Jeffries is dead. Maybe Mike Okuda knows. Ask him.

I'm always getting email from irate fan who tries to call me on something when *I* was there. It doesn't matter that I was there. It couldn't have happened because they've made up their mind that it couldn't have happened. They bore me to tears.

Case in point: Aussie fan who was livid that I said "Journey to Babel" had been censored for violence in its very first run. Kept hounding me to recant on that one because there had N*E*V*E*R been any censorship in Australia. And you'd better believe that one! Never mind that Norman Lindsay, a native Aussie artist was banned all over the place. Never mind that Star Trek wasn't the only TV show censored in the 60s. History be damned; it never happened and I was a dreadful, terrible, horrible person for even suggesting it! I deleted subsequent messages from him.

Another case in point: Fan who'd read "On the Good Ship Enterprise" was not about to believe that Gene Roddenberry had asked silly li'l ole me to take an NBC censor (oh, par'me, Quality Control) to lunch so the Trek crew could film "Mirror, Mirror" their way. No way would a producer ask a mere fan to do this! How stupid of me to have even made the claim! GR would most certainly have asked one of his fellow Producers, or at the very least, an Assistant Director to do this. Which only shows that fan knows nothing of Hollywood hierarchy, much less about network hierarchy. But to him I was obviously one of those braggarts who used Star Trek and Big Names to get attention and to make claims that had no basis in fact. Of course, since the fan was right and I was wrong, there was nothing more to be said on the subject. I certainly had nothing more to say, and deleted subsequent messages from him.
A personal observation, which I shared with Bjo, is that while I do not doubt that AMT did design and at least played a major part in the construction of the shuttlecraft, from AMT's perspective, it makes a lot more sense to put up their guys from Phoenix in a hotel in LA for a few weeks, hire local studio guys for the actual labor, and build it on the lot than build it in Phoenix and then have to deal with the expense, and risk, of trucking the thing to LA.

I think this fits all the available evidence fairly well, including Bjo's recollections and the involvement of AMT's Phoenix shop (they supplied the design and the expertise, just temporarily transplanted to the Desilu lot for a few weeks).
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Old August 11 2006, 11:14 PM   #86
MGagen
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Re: Deck Plans V: The Not-So-Final Go Around

That is very sad, CRA. You are doing a grave disservice to a fine lady by posting that here. I can only imagine how you characterised the issue for her to elicit such a response...

I'm breaking my own rule against posting in this thread to set this straight.

I've recently been in contact with Gene Winfield and he is certainly in a position to settle the matter since he's the man who actually built the thing.

He told me emphatically that the Shuttlecraft (both interior and exterior) were constructed under his supervision at AMT's custom shop in Phoenix, Arizona, and then trucked to Desilu. Other first hand witnesses from the production crew, including Matt Jefferies, have vouched for the financial arrangement -- that AMT bore the cost of construction to be deducted from royalties due on model kits.

I can't understand why you wish to indulge in fruitless and unfounded speculations about a subject where actual facts from first hand sources are being documented. It seems to me that this is more typical of the type of fan Bjo is complaining about.

Mr. Winfield also provided several other interesting details about the Shuttlecraft that I will post this weekend on Hobbytalk.

Cheers,
M.
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Old August 12 2006, 01:50 AM   #87
Captain Robert April
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Re: Deck Plans V: The Not-So-Final Go Around

You could've said all that without the attitude.
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Old August 12 2006, 06:30 AM   #88
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Re: Deck Plans V: The Not-So-Final Go Around

I have a bad feeling were in for another meltdown.
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Old August 12 2006, 06:40 AM   #89
blakbyrd
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Re: Deck Plans V: The Not-So-Final Go Around

*Hides behind a turned over car, and awaits the fallout*
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Old August 12 2006, 07:06 AM   #90
Captain Robert April
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Location: In selfless service to fandom, on the road to becoming a Star Trek trivia god...
Re: Deck Plans V: The Not-So-Final Go Around

No, I'm willing to leave it where it lays.

I'd appreciate some more specifics, like dates, but overall, I'm satisfied that the general question has been answered (for the record, it was someone on the crew, possibly John Dwyer, who told Bjo that the shuttle was built on the lot, so take that for what it's worth).

What's a bit frustrating is the lengths these debates have to go before some hard data gets offered up, after a whole lot of unnecessary posturing, name calling, and just general unpleasantness. How freakin' hard was it to get ahold of Gene Winfield, and why did it have to wind up being a game of dueling sources? Why couldn't that have been the first call? Instead, we were left playing shadow puppets with undated concept sketches and trying to cook up a timeline that explained it all, when one phone call, email, carrier pidgeon, whatever, could've cleared up the whole bloody thing before it even became testy, let alone threaten to break out in yet another flame war.

Jeez......
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