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Old April 17 2013, 05:42 PM   #1216
blueziggy
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Re: USS Grandeur - One... More... Time!

librarian, the saucer did not beat the star drive to farpoint. specifically la forge tells riker that the enterprise arrived but without the saucer. riker beams up to the enterprise and meets picard in the battle bridge's ready room, watches the video, and then when the saucer arrives picard has him do the rendezvous.
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Old April 18 2013, 01:04 AM   #1217
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Re: USS Grandeur - One... More... Time!

Still, the saucer didn't arrive more than a few minutes after the battle section, and in "Arsenal of Freedom" it is explicitly sent off to the nearest starbase from a sublight start. There's no point at all of doing that if the ship can't considerably close the distance by itself. At sublight speeds you're taking a minute or two off a rescue ship's travel time.
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Old April 20 2013, 10:48 PM   #1218
BillJ
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Re: USS Grandeur - One... More... Time!

The Librarian wrote: View Post
Still, the saucer didn't arrive more than a few minutes after the battle section, and in "Arsenal of Freedom" it is explicitly sent off to the nearest starbase from a sublight start. There's no point at all of doing that if the ship can't considerably close the distance by itself. At sublight speeds you're taking a minute or two off a rescue ship's travel time.
The point is taking the saucer out of the combat zone.
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Old April 25 2013, 09:09 PM   #1219
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Re: USS Grandeur - One... More... Time!

sojourner wrote: View Post
You mean one ship that splits into two less powerful ships AND costs more than just building two ships. It's a silly gimmick. Otherwise, the Navy would use it. Haven't seen too many sea going ships that split in two.

Anyone that thinks MVAM is a good idea has never played a really deep strategic game like Star Fleet Battles. One large ship will almost always tear apart 2 ships half it's size.
Well, when you think about it, we really aren't all that advanced.

I've heard of many reports where UFOs split into multiple smaller objects. Assuming they exist, there must be a reason for the ability to do this, and their creators must be advanced enough to the point that having this ability has benefits that outweighs the risks.

And we don't know how much more (if any) it would cost to make all of the necessary systems for separation, but being sufficiently advanced, it might be a lot less expensive then we might imagine.

I will grant that it might take more time to design, and take more time with the prototype, while all the different sections are under construction, and the engineers will need to make sure everything will dock correctly, but being able to design and analyzed the vessel in 3-D, while she is under construction, or something to that nature, would probably cut down on errors, despite the added complexity.

Maybe if the Navy were more advanced enough, maybe they would make a battleship that could split into the equivalent of a pair of light cruisers, so while the two sections are joined, they would be a match for any ship of the line, and when separated, they become better suited for patrol. If one ship finds one ship of interest (say a pirate vessel), one ship can give chase, and the other can fence in the vessel in question.

Then again, it would be much harder to make a sea-going MVAM vessel, since you have to deal with things such as buoyancy. You don't have to worry about a ship capsizing in space.

judge alba wrote: View Post
Potemkin_Prod wrote: View Post
The only time I've seen that done outside TNG is the Disco Volante, the villain Largo's ship in Thunderball. The front half of the boat is a hydrofoil. The silly gimmick was to allow the families of the TNG Enterprise to serve aboard a ship of the line. Splitting into two ships supposedly was for their safety, but I'm not sure if it was ever done but once or twice in the entire series run.

i always had a problem with this idea of the saucer detaching to allow the families to escape to safety in a combat i mean if an enemy attacks the saucer only has impulse engines (as far as i know anyway) to escape so it wouldn't get very far.

Thus is the battle section is crippled then the enemy can still attack the saucer.

Unless you know your going into battle then you could leave the saucer parked somewhere safe.

But this rises the question to my mind of why did the odyssey (i think that was the ship name) in ds9 drop off its non combatants at ds9 rather then just park the saucer?.



my inuniverse theroy is it was intended for that purpose but then starfleet thought it a bad idea and never carried over to many other ships, but left the option there for the galaxies.

but that i guess is a discussion for another thread
I do agree with hull separation being less effective if both sections aren't capable of FTL travel. I was really disappointed that the Odyssey class apparently doesn't have this ability.

I even included this feature in my own version of the Enterprise-F! I felt that both sections having at least warp drive was an essential element for the next-generation SOTL, but nobody at Cryptic paid me any heed!

In fact, if a tiny vessel like the Delta Flyer can have QSD, then there is no excuse for the saucer section not to have it to, especially now that the Federation has had 20+ years to work with it!

Johnny wrote: View Post
judge alba wrote: View Post
Potemkin_Prod wrote: View Post
The only time I've seen that done outside TNG is the Disco Volante, the villain Largo's ship in Thunderball. The front half of the boat is a hydrofoil. The silly gimmick was to allow the families of the TNG Enterprise to serve aboard a ship of the line. Splitting into two ships supposedly was for their safety, but I'm not sure if it was ever done but once or twice in the entire series run.

i always had a problem with this idea of the saucer detaching to allow the families to escape to safety in a combat i mean if an enemy attacks the saucer only has impulse engines (as far as i know anyway) to escape so it wouldn't get very far.

Thus is the battle section is crippled then the enemy can still attack the saucer.

Unless you know your going into battle then you could leave the saucer parked somewhere safe.

But this rises the question to my mind of why did the odyssey (i think that was the ship name) in ds9 drop off its non combatants at ds9 rather then just park the saucer?.



my inuniverse theroy is it was intended for that purpose but then starfleet thought it a bad idea and never carried over to many other ships, but left the option there for the galaxies.

but that i guess is a discussion for another thread
It all seems good until the engineering hulls gonna blow, so you gotta choose between the saucer or a escape pod. I know which one I'd rather be in.

Or even just to survey two planets in the same systems seems to make sense.

I'd love to see this ship separate though.
The above two reasons are probably the original reasons that hull separation was invented in the first place, IMO.

cardinal biggles wrote: View Post
judge alba wrote: View Post
i always had a problem with this idea of the saucer detaching to allow the families to escape to safety in a combat i mean if an enemy attacks the saucer only has impulse engines (as far as i know anyway) to escape so it wouldn't get very far.
In Peter David's novel series New Frontier they tried to remedy this by installing warp drive on the Galaxy-class Excalibur-A.

But this rises the question to my mind of why did the odyssey (i think that was the ship name) in ds9 drop off its non combatants at ds9 rather then just park the saucer?
I've got no guess as to the fictional reason, but real-world was likely due to the (in)availability of the 6-foot Enterprise-D for filming; only the six-footer was able to separate, but that model was likely being refurbished by ILM for its upcoming appearance in Star Trek Generations.
My in-universe explanation is that even though you gain agility by loosing the saucer, you also loose the primary and auxiliary fusion generators housed in the primary hull, so that leaves your ship with less power, and your weapons and shields won't hold out for as long.

It is also possible that the saucer was docked to make the ship bigger, to make her look potentially more intimidating, and hopefully, maybe make the Dominion more willing to talk (as opposed to acting like a proverbial bee's nest, which in the end they sort of did. So much for that idea!).
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Old April 25 2013, 11:57 PM   #1220
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Re: USS Grandeur - One... More... Time!

Seriously, you just used UFO's to argue in favor of MVAM?
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Old April 28 2013, 12:24 AM   #1221
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Re: USS Grandeur - One... More... Time!

Okay, when your thread devolves into discussions of MVAM and UFOs, it's definitely time to post some WIPs.







Not shown here is a fairly massive amount of vertex editing to create those scribed panel lines after the boolean operation was used to cut their basic shape into the hull. I was going to create some WIPs of that process but I got so absorbed in actually doing it that I forgot.

Believe it or not, this whole model is still well under 300,000 polys. In fact, it's still only about half the size of my Polaris model. But, of course, I haven't started adding windows yet.
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Old April 28 2013, 01:26 AM   #1222
sojourner
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Re: USS Grandeur - One... More... Time!

At this rate you're not going to need textures!
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Old April 28 2013, 04:40 AM   #1223
Savage Dragon
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Re: USS Grandeur - One... More... Time!

That is one sexy ship.
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Old April 28 2013, 01:02 PM   #1224
Bernard Guignard
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Re: USS Grandeur - One... More... Time!

That is extremely pretty.
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Old April 28 2013, 07:44 PM   #1225
JES
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Re: USS Grandeur - One... More... Time!

She is quite a lady to be sure.
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Old April 28 2013, 08:50 PM   #1226
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Re: USS Grandeur - One... More... Time!

Nice!
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Old April 28 2013, 09:50 PM   #1227
publiusr
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Re: USS Grandeur - One... More... Time!

This deserves to be on the big screen.
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Old April 29 2013, 04:19 AM   #1228
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Re: USS Grandeur - One... More... Time!

sexy ship indeed =3
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Old May 20 2013, 03:38 AM   #1229
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Re: USS Grandeur - One... More... Time!

Finally taking another run at the RCS thrusters. The basic housing is done with the actual thruster ports yet to be added.

Here's version #1:



And here's version #2:



I'm currently leaning toward version #2 as it seems a bit sleeker to my eye.

Opinions?
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Old May 20 2013, 04:32 AM   #1230
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Re: USS Grandeur - One... More... Time!

Version #2 is pretty sleek in overall appearance, but it does make them less immediately noticeable. I prefer the second look, myself.
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