RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 141,536
Posts: 5,512,941
Members: 25,139
Currently online: 566
Newest member: Pammijo

TrekToday headlines

Two New Starships Collection Ships
By: T'Bonz on Dec 26

Captain Kirk’s Boldest Missions
By: T'Bonz on Dec 25

Trek Paper Clips
By: T'Bonz on Dec 24

Sargent Passes
By: T'Bonz on Dec 23

QMx Trek Insignia Badges
By: T'Bonz on Dec 23

And The New Director Of Star Trek 3 Is…
By: T'Bonz on Dec 23

TV Alert: Pine On Tonight Show
By: T'Bonz on Dec 22

Retro Review: The Emperor’s New Cloak
By: Michelle on Dec 20

Star Trek Opera
By: T'Bonz on Dec 19

New Abrams Project
By: T'Bonz on Dec 18


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Fandom > Fan Art

Fan Art Post your Trek fan art here, including hobby models and collectibles.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old November 26 2008, 06:43 PM   #661
unklejman
Ensign
 
Re: USS Grandeur - One... More... Time!

Vektor wrote: View Post
unklejman wrote: View Post
Hi vektor. That is some really clean modeling. May I ask what software you are using, as well as if you are using NURBS (my suspicion) or polygonal modeling? You may have talked about that before, and I apologize if it is a FAQ.
I'm using 3ds Max 2009. Methods of choice include polygonal modeling with extensive Sub-Ds, lots of spline-based extrusions and lathes, free-form deforms, etc. I have dabbled with NURBS but never enough to become truly proficient with it and haven't used it at all on this model.

This ship falls into a rather unique category in terms of which modeling methods are most suitable for it. Some models, like the original TOS Enterprise, are best constructed with very simple methods like lathes and extrusions, with more advanced techniques used to add the details here and there. For a ship like the Grandeur however, lathes and extrusions are virtually useless for the major shapes. It's organic enough that it's almost like building a character model rather than a mechanical object, but it requires just enough regularity and symmetry that you can't go completely free-form. I suppose it's a lot like modeling a car, though I've never actually done that so I can only speak conceptually.

On the Grandeur, virtually the entire secondary hull and nacelle struts are a single Sub-D object. Same goes for the nacelles themselves. Another single-piece Sub-D is most of the superstructure on top of the saucer, flowing back into the impulse engine housings and around underneath into the various shapes surrounding and in front of the neck section. The saucer itself, believe it or not, was built from a lathed spline, then tweaked into its characteristic egg-shape with a combination of Xform and FFD (Transform and Free-form Deform) modifiers. I did try a couple of times to build it entirely with Sub-Ds, but it turned out to be about the same amount of work to create the basic shape with a lathe and I wound up with a lot fewer faces to boot.

The techniques I use depend entirely on the specific part I'm trying to make. Even then, I can't claim to necessarily be doing it the best way as I am essentially self-taught at all this, which is one of the reason I still don't do much with NURBS.

When you say spline based modeling, do you mean creating a spline and then converting to editable-poly and then doing the extrude or lathe? Or can you some how extrude a spline without converting?

I just don't know how you model all of those curves and corners and have a clean mesh with surface subdivision, and then to make each part fit together smoothly after modeling. I model almost exclusively with polygon and subdivision and have not had enough time to venture into other techniques like I want to. I would not have even thought about trying to model something like that with those techniques but I guess it can be done.
unklejman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 26 2008, 07:31 PM   #662
CaptainRoop
Lieutenant
 
CaptainRoop's Avatar
 
Re: USS Grandeur - One... More... Time!

Sounds like Vektor should write a book titled "How I modeled the USS Grandeur" when he is all finished Who knows maybe he will. Be looking for that on store shelves in the future.

To me of course, all of his techincal explination is way over my head. Do not know how ABC all fits together, I just know that when it does we have one really great looking starship.

Vektor, I am keeping track of both treads and just wanted to say that whille I am content with the Wyvern V Anti-Recoil Proto-Cannons the way they are, what the Commander wants to do with his example seems pretty cool to; so, if nothing else, it will be interesting to see what you come up with on that as well.

A tad bit more FYI from talking to the Commander, these Cannons are somewhat a cross betwwen the more simplified pulse cannons on the Defiant/what we have on both sides of Grandeur main ND and the Partical Beam Cannon under the Future Enterprise. Not one long continous blast but shorter quick blasts with the same high yield intensity as the Partical Beam Cannon.

Did not know if anybody cared to know that but figured I would throw it out there for ones that did. Our specs page does not go into to much detail on them.
__________________
Captain USS Grandeur
Check out our website at:
www.starshipgrandeur.org
CaptainRoop is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 26 2008, 11:53 PM   #663
Professor Moriarty
Vice Admiral
 
Professor Moriarty's Avatar
 
Location: System L-374
View Professor Moriarty's Twitter Profile
Re: USS Grandeur - One... More... Time!

When did the Grandeur turn into a warship? I feel like we're looking at the mirror universe version of the ship all of a sudden.

I'm not saying I dislike this heavily-armed edition of the Grandeur... I'm just wondering why the added armaments.
__________________
My crappy blog
Professor Moriarty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 26 2008, 11:57 PM   #664
Ptrope
Agitator
 
Ptrope's Avatar
 
Location: USA
Re: USS Grandeur - One... More... Time!

Glad it wasn't just me - I was kind of surprised to see how big the guns are, although I don't know the history of the ship, so I don't know if that was always the intent or not. Regardless ... sweet model!
__________________
Star Trek: Reanimated - it's more than just a cartoon!
Ptrope is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 26 2008, 11:57 PM   #665
ThunderAeroI
Rear Admiral
 
ThunderAeroI's Avatar
 
Location: Perpetually being chased by airplanes
Re: USS Grandeur - One... More... Time!

Professor Moriarty wrote: View Post
When did the Grandeur turn into a warship? I feel like we're looking at the mirror universe version of the ship all of a sudden.

I'm not saying I dislike this heavily-armed edition of the Grandeur... I'm just wondering why the added armaments.
pretty sure the big guns were there in the very first drawings
__________________
No Where to be found, but everywhere you are - I'll be there looking for ways to save your life.
ThunderAeroI is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 27 2008, 12:42 AM   #666
Vektor
Rear Admiral
 
Vektor's Avatar
 
Location: Spokane, WA, USA
Re: USS Grandeur - One... More... Time!

The guns have, indeed, always been part of the design, they just haven't been present in the WIP images for a very long time. However, I have to agree that they are a bit more... obtrusive than I intended. I am presently working on an alternate design that I hope will allow them to blend in a little more but still look like something that packs a real punch.

Stay tuned.
__________________
www.vektorvisual.com
Vektor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 27 2008, 01:05 AM   #667
ThunderAeroI
Rear Admiral
 
ThunderAeroI's Avatar
 
Location: Perpetually being chased by airplanes
Re: USS Grandeur - One... More... Time!

Well I must say I like it the way it is, but im sure your modifcation will be grand(eur) as well.
__________________
No Where to be found, but everywhere you are - I'll be there looking for ways to save your life.
ThunderAeroI is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 27 2008, 01:19 AM   #668
CaptainRoop
Lieutenant
 
CaptainRoop's Avatar
 
Re: USS Grandeur - One... More... Time!

Well to answer certain questions, we have always had these drawings/ideals of how the updated Grandeur was going to be. Some of it even spilled over from the original Grandeur as well.

For those who do not know or have forgotten we are part of a real time organization called the IFT which stands for International Federation of Trekkers.
The more fictional side stands for Intergalactic Federation Taskforce, we hold an NFC rather then a NCC. NFC standing for Non-Fleet Commissioned We are part of Starfleet but not sanctioned by starfleet.

As you know allot of regular star ships are exploratory/science etc. first and foremost with some having a fair amount of firepower. We are the ships that do reconnaissance missions, heavy supply or medical runs in dangerous areas of the galaxy., sort of get in and get out as quickly as possible.
Most of the time we may be the only ones around doing a certain mission and we need to make sure, if at all possible, we can handle ourselves in a heavy fire fight either until help arrives or we just plain get out of there.
That is why we have a lot more armament, especially on the saucer in case we ever have to saucer separate.

Well that is about it without going into a lot of useless and boring details. Hope that helps?
One other bit of FYI though we used to be designated as a Long Range Scout Ship (with the original Grandeur). Our new designator with Grandeur-A is a Heavy Tactical Cruiser.

We explained a little up above what the bigger cannons are upfront on the bow as best we could. Should Vektor want to throw more into it as he had in the past on some of the earlier Grandeur-A work that would be good. He has good insite and vision as he designs the look and feel of it all.
__________________
Captain USS Grandeur
Check out our website at:
www.starshipgrandeur.org

Last edited by CaptainRoop; November 27 2008 at 01:36 AM.
CaptainRoop is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 27 2008, 01:59 AM   #669
BK613
Captain
 
BK613's Avatar
 
Location: BK613
Re: USS Grandeur - One... More... Time!

While I am not in the never-enough-firepower camp, your modeling technique is exemplary. Can't wait to see the final model.
BK613 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 26 2008, 11:07 PM   #670
Vektor
Rear Admiral
 
Vektor's Avatar
 
Location: Spokane, WA, USA
Re: USS Grandeur - One... More... Time!

Okay, after fiddling with about a dozen different ideas and variations, a couple of dozen concept sketches and at least three different modeling efforts, here is what I think will be the end result and final design for the Wyvern cannons:




The original plan was to leave more of the "guts" of the cannons exposed, but no matter how I tried to do that, it just seemed incongruous with the rest of the design. I also think this works better on the underside, with fewer notches and angles and disjointed parts and pieces around the cutout. It should also be noted that most of the bottom of the primary hull still consists of "placeholder" objects that never have been smoothed or refined or fit together the way they're eventually supposed to be, so there are some things that don't line up correctly, little gaps, light leaks, etc, as well as some details held over from earlier iterations that will be changed or will go away entirely.

My strategy at this point is to take one small area or detail of the model, like the cannons on the bow, and just concentrate on those until they are basically done. I also plan to devote more time to this project than I have been in quite a while; I just want to get the thing done. Expect to see a lot more significant updates a lot more frequently.

Let the critiques begin.
__________________
www.vektorvisual.com
Vektor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 27 2008, 05:30 PM   #671
the citizen
Lieutenant Commander
 
the citizen's Avatar
 
Location: The Glorious South
Re: USS Grandeur - One... More... Time!

Great work! Very nice and clean. Keep this one!! So, VEK... is this the same cannons, just inclosed? Can you show just the cannons like before... maybe a cutaway?
__________________
"The Citizen" Original Designer of USS Grandeur
~ Check Out Our Facebook Group ~ Vote on Our Props & Models Polls
the citizen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 27 2008, 06:00 PM   #672
Vektor
Rear Admiral
 
Vektor's Avatar
 
Location: Spokane, WA, USA
Re: USS Grandeur - One... More... Time!

They are the same emitters/barrels/whatevers but the bulkier sections behind them and the prongs below have been removed. They wouldn't fit into these new apertures and you wouldn't be able to see them anyway.

This is what they looked like before:



If you're looking for Tech Manual type stuff, I may eventually be able to flesh out the full cannon mechanism, maybe even some kind of cutaway view, but I'm not gonna make any promises. I just want to concentrate on the visible details for now.
__________________
www.vektorvisual.com
Vektor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 27 2008, 07:03 PM   #673
aridas sofia
Rear Admiral
 
Re: USS Grandeur - One... More... Time!

I absolutely love the 1930s deco-ness of those nacelles, Vektor. This truly looks like it was designed with the same sensibilities that informed the redesign of the Enterprise for TMP. Fantastic design work.
aridas sofia is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 27 2008, 09:15 PM   #674
CaptainRoop
Lieutenant
 
CaptainRoop's Avatar
 
Re: USS Grandeur - One... More... Time!

Looks very very good. Always remember Vek, we appreciate all the time you have spent on doing this. I know you said there are places that need reshaping and smoothed out; with me being a non artist I do not see them much, all I see is how beautiful this ship has become.

Your commitment to this ship has been exemplary. Thank you for all of your hard work and dedication. I guess the day we see windows going in is the day we know you are getting close to wrapping it all up. In the meantime we will keep enjoying all the progress that we get to see.

The old saying (if I am saying it right) "Success is not in the final destination, but in the journey getting there." can hold true in most anything, and maybe this as well.
It has been a long journey, but just think of all you have learned and in the process, taught others as well.

We look forward to the final result, but the journey getting there is no less rewarding, great job.
__________________
Captain USS Grandeur
Check out our website at:
www.starshipgrandeur.org
CaptainRoop is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 9 2009, 03:08 AM   #675
Vektor
Rear Admiral
 
Vektor's Avatar
 
Location: Spokane, WA, USA
Re: USS Grandeur - One... More... Time!

More Grandeur goodness:






Please note: This is NOT the final texturing. I was just tinkering around with some effects to make it look like the bare, unpainted hull of a ship under construction. I was also experimenting with some UV unwrapping of the primary hull, which defies most of the usual mapping methods due to its oblong egg shape. I have a workable method but I may need something else entirely for what I have in mind for the end-product.

The impulse engines were something of an experiment as well. All I've done is throw a colored spotlight on the "tray" behind the impulse grills, which makes a pretty nice effect if I do say so.

Finally, there are a number of modeling updates in these images in addition to texturing and glowy impulse engines. I reworked the base meshes for the neck section and the top of the secondary hull so they actually connect along the seam rather than just intersecting. This will be especially important when it comes down to the rapid prototyping/3D printing phase, but I also used the opportunity to create a small hull gap along that seam just for some added detail.

More stuff is in the works but I have to go out of town on business this week and won't have anything else to post until week after next at the earliest.
__________________
www.vektorvisual.com
Vektor is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 12:33 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.