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Old August 15 2014, 12:23 PM   #1
asl
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Why all the 'These are the Voyages...' hate?

I never understood why so much negativity was attached to the finale. I recently re-watched the episode, and thought it wrapped up the show nicely.

Your thoughts?
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Old August 15 2014, 12:43 PM   #2
Whiskeyjack
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Re: Why all the 'These are the Voyages...' hate?

Been a while since I watched it but off the top I have two reasons

Trips death, I never liked the character but it was a meaningless death for the sake of it. If it was any other episode he would have thought of an alternative way to resolve the situation but because he was slated for death the best he could come up with was a suicide attack.

Its a TNG/Enterprise finale. Not opposed to crossovers but not for a finale, it should be a Ent only ep without TNG or any other show coming into steal some of the limelight. Jonathan Frakes himself said it was a disservice to the Entrprise cast and what the heck happened to Trois accent anyway? It didnt even make sense if you watched the TNG episode because Riker didnt go and see Picard to tell him the truth.

Line it up alongside the two part finales of TNG, Voyager and DS9 and it was dissapointing. They all had big storys to tell, this was a filler episode at best.
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Old August 15 2014, 04:44 PM   #3
asl
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Re: Why all the 'These are the Voyages...' hate?

Whiskeyjack wrote: View Post
Trips death, I never liked the character but it was a meaningless death for the sake of it. If it was any other episode he would have thought of an alternative way to resolve the situation but because he was slated for death the best he could come up with was a suicide attack.
I see your point but maybe the Vulcan belief in the 'needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few' resonated with him.


Whiskeyjack wrote: View Post
It didnt even make sense if you watched the TNG episode because Riker didnt go and see Picard to tell him the truth.
Lol never even considered that. But, if you think about it, he used the NX era programme because he was uncertain. Maybe, he chickened out of speaking with Picard after the holodeck.
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Old August 15 2014, 05:20 PM   #4
Bad Thoughts
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Re: Why all the 'These are the Voyages...' hate?

1. All the action takes place in the 24th century.

2. Inconsistent with the character development over season four.

3. Low stakes of Trip's sacrifice.

4. The lack of historicity of the holoprogram.

5. Poorly shoehorned into Pegasus plot.

6. Decline of quality from previous Enterprise episodes.

7. The episode was a warmed over Braga story, rewritten at the last minute.
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Old August 15 2014, 05:43 PM   #5
Kobayshi Maru
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Re: Why all the 'These are the Voyages...' hate?

Bad Thoughts wrote: View Post
1. All the action takes place in the 24th century.

2. Inconsistent with the character development over season four.

3. Low stakes of Trip's sacrifice.

4. The lack of historicity of the holoprogram.

5. Poorly shoehorned into Pegasus plot.

6. Decline of quality from previous Enterprise episodes.

7. The episode was a warmed over Braga story, rewritten at the last minute.
It was seven years after the last, IE penultimate, episode and yet none of them had been promoted or reassigned. They pretty much look and sound all like they do in the penultimate episode. Doesn't seem likely or plausible.
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Old August 15 2014, 06:11 PM   #6
asl
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Re: Why all the 'These are the Voyages...' hate?

Kobayshi Maru wrote: View Post
It was seven years after the last, IE penultimate, episode and yet none of them had been promoted or reassigned. They pretty much look and sound all like they do in the penultimate episode. Doesn't seem likely or plausible.
It was a holo re-creation of the ENT crew. This might account for the the crew not aging. Plus, it does seem unusual that none of the bridge crew advanced in rank but not impossible.
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Old August 15 2014, 06:12 PM   #7
Melakon
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Re: Why all the 'These are the Voyages...' hate?

Agree with Bad Thoughts' analysis.
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Old August 15 2014, 06:50 PM   #8
Nerys Myk
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Re: Why all the 'These are the Voyages...' hate?

Bad Thoughts wrote: View Post
1. All the action takes place in the 24th century.

2. Inconsistent with the character development over season four.

3. Low stakes of Trip's sacrifice.

4. The lack of historicity of the holoprogram.

5. Poorly shoehorned into Pegasus plot.

6. Decline of quality from previous Enterprise episodes.

7. The episode was a warmed over Braga story, rewritten at the last minute.
This
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Old August 15 2014, 09:39 PM   #9
Richard Baker
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Re: Why all the 'These are the Voyages...' hate?

If they had ended it with Archer's speech, which was supposed to be so historic but we left as he was just starting. Trips death was like an afterthought and that whole 'last mission' seemed pointless.

Riker spliced in playing fry cook just did not work- the idea he was running the holo-simulation to help resolve a personal issue trivialized the Enterprise series.

The only good thing about it was showing the different Enterprises at the very end.
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Old August 15 2014, 10:43 PM   #10
asl
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Re: Why all the 'These are the Voyages...' hate?

Richard Baker wrote: View Post
If they had ended it with Archer's speech, which was supposed to be so historic but we left as he was just starting
For continuity, it would be a nice touch if we heard it repeated in the upcoming Star Trek movie
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Old August 15 2014, 11:35 PM   #11
Mark_Nguyen
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Re: Why all the 'These are the Voyages...' hate?

If they'd done this first then the preceding two-parter as the TRUE finale and not just the de jure one, IMO everything would have been so much more accepted by the fandom...

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Old August 15 2014, 11:44 PM   #12
J. Allen
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Re: Why all the 'These are the Voyages...' hate?

Bad Thoughts wrote: View Post
1. All the action takes place in the 24th century.

2. Inconsistent with the character development over season four.

3. Low stakes of Trip's sacrifice.

4. The lack of historicity of the holoprogram.

5. Poorly shoehorned into Pegasus plot.

6. Decline of quality from previous Enterprise episodes.

7. The episode was a warmed over Braga story, rewritten at the last minute.
This sums it up for me. I wanted to like the finale, but after it was done, all I could think was "what the hell was that?!"
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Old August 15 2014, 11:47 PM   #13
Melakon
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Re: Why all the 'These are the Voyages...' hate?

Best thing about TATV was in the season's bloopers.

Frakes, as Chef, asks Malcolm, "Do you find yourself attracted to him?"

Keating, caught off guard, cracks up with "That's-- a bit personal, isn't it?"
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Old August 16 2014, 12:08 AM   #14
urbandefault
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Re: Why all the 'These are the Voyages...' hate?

The whole "Valentine" build-up didn't pay off. It was just badly done.

In all honesty, I'd pretty much given up on Enterprise early in the 3rd season. I tried to catch an episode here and there, but life was busy and the VCR had become a pain to deal with. What I did see up to the end was disappointing.

I made a special effort to see the finale, and it just left me cold. The best part was the ship thing at the end. Pretty sad.
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Old August 16 2014, 01:46 AM   #15
tomswift2002
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Re: Why all the 'These are the Voyages...' hate?

You know it was really bad when Paramount gave Simon & Svhuster permission to retcon the whole "canon" story in the novels line---and really the novels (starting with "The Good That Men Do" and explain we went from Terra Prime and the Coalition Of Planets to the Romulan War and the United Federation of Planets).

But also with the Pegasus story, the whole question of Riker talking to Troi was never answered---especially since in the original episode Admiral Pressman very clearly tells Riker to discuss the situation with no one, not even Picard (and these "Be Quiet" orders in the original episode apparently came all the way from the heads of Starfleet Security and Intelligence, since in the same scene Riker is surprised when Pressman mentions that an Admiral Rainor, who is apparently head of Starfleet Security, is involved and is watching how events unfold).

Also, in the original episode Riker barely has time to be visiting the Holodeck as much as TATV has him visiting.

Also, the NX-01 herself only shows up once in the episode: in the montage at the end. But for the whole episode I found the CGI Enterprise-D looked like a pile of vomit flying through what appeared to be Nintendo 64-era asteroids (the reminded me of the asteroids that were used in Starfox-64---in 1996 those visual graphics were acceptable, but in 2005 they were not acceptable) space. It was a horrible modelling job---but the CGI on the series never was stellar to begin with.

Last edited by tomswift2002; August 16 2014 at 02:02 AM.
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