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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > Star Trek - Original Series

Star Trek - Original Series The one that started it all...

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Old August 26 2014, 02:32 PM   #16
Marsden
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Re: Messages, morals and meanings...

Maurice wrote: View Post
THE CAGE, Teleplay, Revised Draft, Nov. 20, 1964, p.44.

INT. HELL-FIRE - MATCHING WINTER

Again, transported instantly in mid-gesture and movement,
Winter finds himself writhing in bubbling, sulphurous
brimstone, in a dark place obscured with smoke, flame
licking at him from all sides. The instant agony is as
real as the surprise and a SCREAM of pain is wrenched out
before he can suppress it. It lasts only a few seconds.
I believe that should settle it.
Well, if you're just going to use things like evidence and proof, what fun is that?

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Old August 27 2014, 02:15 AM   #17
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Re: Messages, morals and meanings...

Forbin wrote: View Post
I'm damned if I can understand why there are still people who are racists and bigots.
Basically, not everyone thinks the same.



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Old August 28 2014, 10:25 PM   #18
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Re: Messages, morals and meanings...

1. Pike's clothes were melting.

2. The later shout-outs to monotheism seem fitting for '60s mass-market TV. 60s religion was very middle-of-the-road prior to the evangelical resurgence of 80s/90s. And, calling a fiery Hell a fable would not be terribly risky then. Look at what they got away with in 1973 with the TAS "Magicks," saying Satan was just an alien and not a demigod. Granted that flew under the radar because of its time slot.

3. One of the big themes I've been perceiving lately is our inherent brutality, but the possibility to control it. "I won't kill today." Or Spock quoting some horrors and someone else pointing out that we had improved. TNG sometimes seems to say that that nature can be permanently eradicated. That, to me, is dangerous thinking. We see lately in Ukraine how previously peaceful neighbors quickly can be turned deadly enemies because of our self-preservation/aggrandizement and group-identity instincts.
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Old August 28 2014, 10:35 PM   #19
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Re: Messages, morals and meanings...

plynch wrote: View Post
...TNG sometimes seems to say that that (violent) nature can be permanently eradicated. That, to me, is dangerous thinking...
The way I see it, these futuristic heroes we all watch, admire and cheer on are basically aliens to us. Much of their beliefs and behaviors, while admirable in many ways, aren't a lot different from the remoteness of ponn farr's, telekinetic beings and hyper-accelerated living and such things are to us.
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Old August 29 2014, 12:31 AM   #20
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Re: Messages, morals and meanings...

LMFAOschwarz wrote: View Post
plynch wrote: View Post
...TNG sometimes seems to say that that (violent) nature can be permanently eradicated. That, to me, is dangerous thinking...
The way I see it, these futuristic heroes we all watch, admire and cheer on are basically aliens to us. Much of their beliefs and behaviors, while admirable in many ways, aren't a lot different from the remoteness of ponn farr's, telekinetic beings and hyper-accelerated living and such things are to us.
People here have noted that in TOS, the utopia, and its perfect beings, haven't arrived yet. And DS9 brought things back to "reality." Of course TNG Has many strengths, not trying to dis it per se.
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Old August 29 2014, 01:04 PM   #21
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Re: Messages, morals and meanings...

There are nice places and not nice places, and people as well. While I certainly can believe certain places in the Federation might seem like a "utopia" there are other places like Nimbus III that are pretty bad. To pretend everywhere is a wonderful place is silly, but in some areas I can accept it, just like some parts of our current world are better than others. It's when someone make a blanket statement about everywhere being wonderful and everyone being so civilized and advanced that it breaks down.

I don't want to site any real world examples because I don't want to debate examples, but I wouldn't mind debating Star Trek examples. For example, Vulcan seems to be in really good shape, I doubt there are too many slums or dangerous areas because of gangs of criminals. Maybe Earth is like that, too, and Argelius. But places like Capella and Ecos, not so much.
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Old August 29 2014, 05:22 PM   #22
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Re: Messages, morals and meanings...

Well, you get the sense in TNG that earth is (GR's version of) utopia and by extension the federation worlds and their people for the most part. Maybe it's just Starfleet who are the real advanced being (vis. Wesley's line about "We're Starfleet, we don't lie.")

GR fleshed out his "new human" in the TMP novel in asides.
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Old August 29 2014, 06:50 PM   #23
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Re: Messages, morals and meanings...

plynch wrote: View Post
Well, you get the sense in TNG that earth is (GR's version of) utopia and by extension the federation worlds and their people for the most part. Maybe it's just Starfleet who are the real advanced being (vis. Wesley's line about "We're Starfleet, we don't lie.")

GR fleshed out his "new human" in the TMP novel in asides.
I kind of always thought that it was just Picard that was self-righteous (or, THAT self-righteous) in TNG and everyone else around him just kind of went along with it or didn't say anything. Probably rubbed off on Wesley.
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Old August 30 2014, 03:36 PM   #24
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Re: Messages, morals and meanings...

Marsden wrote: View Post
Vulcan seems to be in really good shape, I doubt there are too many slums or dangerous areas because of gangs of criminals.
The society of Vulcan always seems very repressed to me, very controlling. Sybok was cast out, Tuvok was sent to reconditioning. Spock was bullied as a child for being different.

T'Pol was at one time employed by the Vulcan security forces, she went after Vulcan criminals.

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