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Star Trek - Original Series The one that started it all...

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Old August 24 2014, 05:52 PM   #16
Warped9
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Re: The Cloud Minders: So Much Weird!

When I was younger I didn't much care for this episode. But the passage of years has changed my opinion. Like other third season efforts it has its rough edges, but overall I feel rather favourable towards it. It also has a still relevant message in the story: that many of those who toil for the good of those above them in society often don't benefit or get to enjoy the rewards of their toil.

This scenario had been playing out in human societies since history began and it's still happening today.


In some respects I find "The Cloud Minders" to be an interesting companion piece to "Plato's Stepchildren" where the elite of society fully believed they had the right to manipulate and exploit others to the point of treating them as disposable. That's another message I think is still very relevant today.
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Old August 24 2014, 06:12 PM   #17
Joe_Atari
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Re: The Cloud Minders: So Much Weird!

Melakon wrote: View Post
"Very well, if you prefer the rays!"
T'Girl wrote: View Post
Contains one of Kirk's best lines ever; "Die from something that can't be seen? You astound me, Vanna."
If nothing else, certainly one of the more quotable episodes. How about Spock's, "The captain will employ his usual diplomatic balm." (I kinda wish they had cut directly to the shot of Kirk brandishing the phaser, but that might have been too much). Or Plasus', "I have been here nearly an hour... of your Earth time!"

EnriqueH wrote: View Post
Boy, you really didn't like it, eh?
Didn't hate it, but even at its worst I never find Trek completely unwatchable; it can always be enjoyed on some level. TFF is redeemed by the sheer epicness of Shatner's ego on full, unfettered display. I thoroughly enjoy the scores for "Spock's Brain" and "And The Children Shall Lead" (minus the juvenile "kiddie" cues in the latter), and Shatner losing it in the cave and turbolift in "Children" is... I just can't take my eyes off of it.

Now I do find bits and pieces here and there borderline unwatchable, like the Klingon translation scene in TUC, Cochrane's "astronauts on some kind of star trek" line in FC, the dune buggy chase in NEM, or the VFX in TFF.

EnriqueH wrote: View Post
2) Its eyes were bigger than its stomach: the budget was WAY too slashed to do what they wanted to do. The caves, the city of Stratos. They did their best, but you can see this had a sweeping, epic nature that they wanted to convey about the planet, and they didn't quite pull it off.
This is why I cut TMP and TFF so much slack (and in spite of its many flaws TMP is still my favorite Trek film). They, like "Cloud Minders", tried. TMP suffered from its rushed post-production and TFF from its screenplay and above-the-line costs (i.e. Shatner and Nimoy's salaries). The Stratos set design was so ambitious and I love the up-angle shot of the transport pad with the smoke, er, clouds over the orange sky. And although I'm not a fan of the TOS-R space-based VFX overall (and I fully understand the restrictions and elements they had to work with), I found CBS-D's episode-specific work here exemplary -- truly enhancing the episode without going over-the-top (ala "Doomsday Machine"). I wish they had done more with the Troglyte's fall (some realistic tumbling or flailing perhaps?), but incorporating the new visuals into the Spock monologue scene (with all of the fades) must have been brutal. Kudos CBS-D!

Not to stray from "Cloud Minders", but this is the problem I have with recent Trek productions; all that money and talent and all the producers can come up with are tired retreads and revenge plots? Clichéd villains in trenchcoats?

EnriqueH wrote: View Post
I think I know what you mean about Jeff Corey, who not only was an acting instructor but I believe he was also Nimoy's acting instructor. So it was cool to see teacher-student onscreen together like Pacino-Lee Strasberg in Godfather II.

I found there was a certain truthfulness saturated in Jeff Corey's performance. There was a certain rawness and, yes, vitality about it. I thought he was effective. He unapologetically wore his emotions on his sleeve, and that honesty of expression is what endeared his performance to me.
It's just his often over-the-top, hysterical (not in the funny sense) deliveries that detract for me, like:

"Did you also forget your transport card?"

"Could this perhaps be it???"

"I am high advisor of all the planet; I will take no more orders!"

Maybe Corey was playing to the banality of the lines he was given, and he probably didn't have enough screen time to convey any, say, inner conflict of the character, but I just couldn't take him seriously as the episode's heavy. He's supposed to be an unapologetic slave driver, right? I can't help thinking a more subtle, sinister approach to the character would have helped, like James Gregory in "Dagger of the Mind" where he pivoted on a dime from affable, benevolent caregiver to sadistic torturer (even though his motivations were not made clear in the final cut of that episode).
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Old August 24 2014, 06:50 PM   #18
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Re: The Cloud Minders: So Much Weird!

Joe, I'm relaxing on the beach so I'll be brief:

I disagree with your thoughts on Cloudminders, but I love how you've stated your case and explained your viewpoints.

Nicely done.

I hope we'll be hearing more from you.
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Old August 24 2014, 07:22 PM   #19
Joe_Atari
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Re: The Cloud Minders: So Much Weird!

ZapBrannigan wrote: View Post
If you A/B the Kirk and Spock shots...
Which I did... way more times than I want to admit. Thanks for the links!

ZapBrannigan wrote: View Post
If I remember correctly, it was referred to as a "tie-down shot" in the Solow/Justman book.

http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/1x18hd/arenahd309.jpg

http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/3x...dershd1056.jpg
It always struck me how cleverly the shot (like the more common one from the captain's chair) was often edited in with the surrounding footage, particularly early on in the series. Based on this I recalled the shot was used in "Metamorphosis" (at around 37:18) because it accompanied one of my favorite music cues in the series ("Nancy Sobs" if anyone's interested), but neither Kirk or Spock were on the bridge in the scene (Scotty was in command). The creators used part of the shot (apparently the Spock version) with an empty captain's chair and then cut to a shot of Scotty standing to the left of the chair.

http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/2x...osishd1027.jpg

http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/2x...osishd1032.jpg

Pretty seamless really, although later they had problems matching it with scenes where Sulu's viewer was up.
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Old August 24 2014, 07:37 PM   #20
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Re: The Cloud Minders: So Much Weird!

T'Girl wrote: View Post
Green Shirt wrote: View Post
T'Girl wrote: View Post
a hot skinny girl.
An oxymoron if ever I heard one.
You have difficulty with connecting "hot" and "girl?"

Yes, if the word "skinny" is used as a connector.
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Old August 24 2014, 08:23 PM   #21
Kobayshi Maru
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Re: The Cloud Minders: So Much Weird!

What's crazy is that they were stupid as soon as they breathed the gas but got all her faculties intact back as soon as they stopped. This is really out there as prolonged alterations to the brain tend to be permanent. If these people didn't have a normal brain growing up then they should be missing important stages in their mental development, stages that you can't get back in adulthood.
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Old August 25 2014, 03:35 AM   #22
EnriqueH
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Re: The Cloud Minders: So Much Weird!

I was just reviewing this thread and had an EPIC oversight...

Vanna.

She was HOT.

Don't get me wrong, Droxine was very attractive, but Vanna is more my type.
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Old August 25 2014, 11:31 AM   #23
Warped9
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Re: The Cloud Minders: So Much Weird!

Kobayshi Maru wrote: View Post
What's crazy is that they were stupid as soon as they breathed the gas but got all her faculties intact back as soon as they stopped. This is really out there as prolonged alterations to the brain tend to be permanent. If these people didn't have a normal brain growing up then they should be missing important stages in their mental development, stages that you can't get back in adulthood.
Its television. You simply don't have time to depict things completely realistic. If one insists on total realism in television than easily 90 percent has to be taken off the air.
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Old August 25 2014, 01:20 PM   #24
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Re: The Cloud Minders: So Much Weird!

90% should be!
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Old August 25 2014, 02:01 PM   #25
Warped9
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Re: The Cloud Minders: So Much Weird!

Forbin wrote: View Post
90% should be!
Well, thats another discussion.
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Old August 25 2014, 06:51 PM   #26
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Re: The Cloud Minders: So Much Weird!

I like this episode. I'm voting a 7 when the poll gets put up sometime about 2 years from now.

I love how Kirk will get his mission completed, no matter how hard he has to work at it.

I thought Jeff Corey was cool, he's been in many shows and I've liked him in all of them.

I was just saying in another thread how I 100% buy that Mr. Spock was really into Droxie, totally belivable for me.

Marsden wrote: View Post
Nimoy is so subtle, maybe I'm seeing things that aren't there, but when Plasus introduces his daughter as a "work of art" and Spock responds that he's never met a work of art before, I think he was interested. Also, Droxy may have seem shallow, but apparently she was schooled in various art forms, like painting. It's hard to make blanket statements, but it seemed like Vulcans' had a high appreciation of art forms, so a beautiful artist may very well appeal to a Vulcan's tastes.

Also Spock is thinking this line: If the lovely Droxine knew of the young miner's misery, I wonder how the knowledge would affect her. He's thinking she's lovely.


Another quote.
SPOCK: Extreme feminine beauty is always disturbing, madam.

That's what I'm basing my previous comment on.

Maybe Spock would have like to keep her in his home on Vulcan, filing it with artwork so it's nice when he comes home on leave.


I didn't really have any problems with the episode.



It's not one of my top ten, but it's certainly not in my bottom eight, either.
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Old August 25 2014, 08:49 PM   #27
Richard Baker
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Re: The Cloud Minders: So Much Weird!

I voted this episode in the thread of most underrated shows. Particularly the TOS-R version where they open up the visuals and make the floating city look like more that Lego blocks on a bunch of cotton.
You do see for the first time a truly interesting member of the Federation- a unique city with a split culture. Instead of backwater planets or just descriptions, we can see what the technology of that era can do first hand. THe story does have some weird places and I think the ending is rushed, but it is still one of my top ten shows.
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Old August 25 2014, 10:40 PM   #28
LMFAOschwarz
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Re: The Cloud Minders: So Much Weird!

EnriqueH wrote: View Post
I was just reviewing this thread and had an EPIC oversight...

Vanna.

She was HOT.

Don't get me wrong, Droxine was very attractive, but Vanna is more my type.
You mean, you're looking for a woman who will betray your trust, and make you dig in a mine with your bare hands?

For what it's worth, this was the very first episode I ever saw. And this, the very first scene my young orbs beheld back in'72 or so (albeit in black and white)...



Little did I know at that moment how life had just changed.

It's hard to hate a memory like that.
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Old August 26 2014, 12:09 AM   #29
EnriqueH
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Re: The Cloud Minders: So Much Weird!

LMFAOschwarz wrote: View Post
EnriqueH wrote: View Post
I was just reviewing this thread and had an EPIC oversight...

Vanna.

She was HOT.

Don't get me wrong, Droxine was very attractive, but Vanna is more my type.
You mean, you're looking for a woman who will betray your trust, and make you dig in a mine with your bare hands?

For what it's worth, this was the very first episode I ever saw. And this, the very first scene my young orbs beheld back in'72 or so (albeit in black and white)...



Little did I know at that moment how life had just changed.

It's hard to hate a memory like that.
Man, I remember a lot of things, but I'm not sure I remember my first episode.

I just remember my 1979 or 1980 Sunday line up:

Solid Gold, Dance Fever, Star Trek, Sha-Na-Na, and the most HATED show of all time. The show that signifies the end of the weekend: 60 Minutes.
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Old August 26 2014, 01:42 AM   #30
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Re: The Cloud Minders: So Much Weird!

I thought this was one of the more well-regarded third season episodes. Definitely one of my favorites. Some memorable visuals, well-crafted characters with meaningful dialogue, and a powerful (but oversimplified) message about a society of the "haves" and "have-nots" which resonates even today.

I agree with the original post about Jeff Corey's acting, for the most part. A bit over-the-top, but definitely memorable. And he kept pace with Shatner at his hammiest!
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