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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Entertainment & Interests > Science Fiction & Fantasy > Doctor Who

Doctor Who "Bigger on the inside..."

View Poll Results: Grade "Deep Breath"
Scottish! 52 33.33%
Good 74 47.44%
Average 17 10.90%
Bad 8 5.13%
I miss Matt Smith 5 3.21%
Voters: 156. You may not vote on this poll

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Old August 24 2014, 11:20 AM   #76
Australis
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Re: 8X01 "Deep Breath" Grading/Discussion)(SPOILERS!)

I had to vote Scottish (och aye!) But it wasn't perfect. dragged in some places, Clara holding her breath sequence for example. And the dinosaur was waaaaayyyy too big, it could have just grabbed on like Captain Jack.

I do like the new credits, don't much like the new theme. Clara should know what regeneration is all about, she shouldn't have freaked the way she did, terribly inconsistent. I guess she represents all the 10/11 fangirls out there.

I'm really tired right now, but overall I enjoyed it, and Capaldi is going to be good. This series will go to some interesting places.
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Old August 24 2014, 11:25 AM   #77
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Re: 8X01 "Deep Breath" Grading/Discussion)(SPOILERS!)

Mage - Here is the relevant transcript from "The Time of the Doctor." I can see where you might get confused, but if you read it, Eleven does not call himself the Thirteenth Doctor:

The Time of the Doctor wrote:
CLARA: But you don't die. You change. You pop right back up with a new face.

DOCTOR: No, not for ever. I can change twelve times. Thirteen versions of me. Thirteen silly Doctors.

CLARA: Okay, so you're number eleven, so --

DOCTOR: Ha. Are we forgetting Captain Grumpy, eh? I didn't call myself the Doctor during the Time War, but it was still a regeneration.

CLARA: Okay, so you're number twelve.

DOCTOR: Well, number ten once regenerated and kept the same face. I had vanity issues at the time. Twelve regenerations, Clara. I can't ever do it again. This is where I end up. This face, this version of me. We saw this planet in the future, remember? All those graves, one of them mine.
At the start, he's talking about the hypothetical -- that there could, hypothetically, be 13 Doctors as a result of 12 regenerations. But at the end, he's saying that he's had 12 incarnations and has used up all of his regenerations.
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Old August 24 2014, 11:28 AM   #78
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Re: 8X01 "Deep Breath" Grading/Discussion)(SPOILERS!)

Sci wrote: View Post
Mage - Here is the relevant transcript from "The Time of the Doctor." I can see where you might get confused, but if you read it, Eleven does not call himself the Thirteenth Doctor:

The Time of the Doctor wrote:
CLARA: But you don't die. You change. You pop right back up with a new face.

DOCTOR: No, not for ever. I can change twelve times. Thirteen versions of me. Thirteen silly Doctors.

CLARA: Okay, so you're number eleven, so --

DOCTOR: Ha. Are we forgetting Captain Grumpy, eh? I didn't call myself the Doctor during the Time War, but it was still a regeneration.

CLARA: Okay, so you're number twelve.

DOCTOR: Well, number ten once regenerated and kept the same face. I had vanity issues at the time. Twelve regenerations, Clara. I can't ever do it again. This is where I end up. This face, this version of me. We saw this planet in the future, remember? All those graves, one of them mine.
At the start, he's talking about the hypothetical -- that there could, hypothetically, be 13 Doctors as a result of 12 regenerations. But at the end, he's saying that he's had 12 incarnations and has used up all of his regenerations.
Right. Yeah, that got me confused.
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Old August 24 2014, 12:10 PM   #79
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Re: 8X01 "Deep Breath" Grading/Discussion)(SPOILERS!)

I voted Scottish! only because I loved how the episode trolled people bothered by Capaldi's age (what?), and did several pretty powerful scenes around this and related subjects. I want more!

Our old friends were a bit of a side-story patched around the regeneration story, but I think it fit pretty well, and better than other similar episodes. I loved the tension that was created when the Doctor seemingly left Clara – for a moment I thought he was actually doing it. I also loved how around the time the Doctor was about to figure out things seemed familiar, he channelled ten and realised he was Scottish. "Spare parts" at the river made me suspicious, and by the time he delivered a little bit of ten I was certain where we were. And loved that he didn't.

The resolution didn't live up to the rest of the episode, although the ambiguity surrounding it made up for that – and it was pretty emotional scene. I was also kinda disappointed that the police and the other local folk were basically extras. It is one of the rare instances where they've actually set an episode to where Jenny and Vastra live, and have showed a glimpse in their regular life and have heavily hinted at the prejudice that surrounds them, yet all people simply sat there gaping at the things they haven't seen before, without any participation. (I actually prefer to see an episode-long story about Jenny, who is native of that time and place, meeting Vastra, but that doesn't mean we can't take on one of the other folks there for ride, does it?)


The phone call made me get emotional. Hey, what's up with you, it was me who just called you! Lovely.

I am deeply confused what this promised land and girlfriend business. And I am a bit wary, because I am not completely certain I'd like the arc that is being set up, given the first taste of it, but I am quite curious. The whole thing has a similar vibe to the simulation in Forest of the Dead, but I doubt it is related.

ETA: I also disagree that Clara's difficulty in accepting the new Doctor is strange. Yes, she has seen the other faces of the Doctor, she is aware, but being aware is completely different than the Doctor you know going away. It is quite different when it actually happens, when it is somebody you haven't seen before.
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Old August 24 2014, 12:14 PM   #80
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Re: 8X01 "Deep Breath" Grading/Discussion)(SPOILERS!)

Candlelight wrote: View Post
Pindar wrote: View Post
P-Cap
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!

Please don't start calling him that!! His name is Peter Capaldi. He's not some D-grade US celebrity.
Blame Radio Free Skaro for coming up with it.

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Old August 24 2014, 12:14 PM   #81
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Re: 8X01 "Deep Breath" Grading/Discussion)(SPOILERS!)

I liked the somewhat sombre and laid-back tone of this opener, though it could have done with being ten or fifteen minutes shorter. It looked expensive, and kudos to the director and crew for keeping it convincing.

There was much to like about it. We may be done with motormouth Doctors for a while, but this new incarnation of the show seems to have its own style of wit. Loved the scene with the homeless man; humour, intrigue and menace all in one scene, and very well-shot too. Capaldi doesn't even try to compete with Matt Smith, but that's not to say that he won't own the role just as Smith did. Looking forward to more of this new, perhaps edgier, flavour.

Will need to experience the title sequence and theme tune again before deciding, but on first impression I find them both to be superior to the ones with which the Smith era was originally lumbered. They evoke a sense of weirdness and mystery, which seems appropriate for the show's new direction. Kind of got a sense of Pertwee's later title sequence from the graphics, too.

Anyway, four out of five. A very robust opener despite some misgivings.
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Old August 24 2014, 12:50 PM   #82
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Re: 8X01 "Deep Breath" Grading/Discussion)(SPOILERS!)

I've not long watched the re-run and my impressions are much the same as they were when I watched it (early) this morning: I'm indifferent to it. Nothing about it grabbed and kept my attention, but then again nothing outright repelled me either. It was just there.

A few random thoughts:

* Capaldi made a decent first impression and it's one of the few times I've actually liked Clara (despite the oddity of her struggling with the regeneration).

* didn't mind the visuals of the new titles and the first part of the theme. Don't like the second part of the new theme a bit.

* I'm completely over Strax at this point. The "boy" / ongoing ignorance shtick is just ridiculous now.

* really, really liked the bit about the long scarf looking stupid.

* I agree with those who've said they found it overlong. The giant dinosaur looked snazzy enough but getting on with the story would've been better.

I'll more than likely keep watching but while I'm not voting that way, I do miss Matt Smith. Still, early days.

Candlelight wrote: View Post
bigdaddy wrote: View Post
I like how people attack Moffat's style as being nonsense when RTD did the same crap and only worse. Drives me nuts.
At least RTD's stories were enjoyable.


Oh, wait. Were you serious? To each their own, I suppose.
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Old August 24 2014, 01:23 PM   #83
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Re: 8X01 "Deep Breath" Grading/Discussion)(SPOILERS!)

I liked the episode, not sure what I think of the new opener. That is just odd but I will get used to it. Clara, that just went on too long. I want to like her but she was a little annoying with the issues with the regeneration.

I like the new doctor. I am sure we will get more of what type of doctor he will be in future episodes. The new Tardifs interior is really nice to.

The Missy Person: I am not sure why everyone is taking her word for it that the doctor is her boyfriend. I wonder if maybe she is the Rani She will be an interesting Villain this year I think.

I still like Moffet's era better than RTD's.
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Old August 24 2014, 01:34 PM   #84
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Re: 8X01 "Deep Breath" Grading/Discussion)(SPOILERS!)

Ugh, again with the eras. I liked RTD's better, but I am still watching Moffat's, so clearly he's not nearly as bad as he's been made out to be.
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Old August 24 2014, 02:18 PM   #85
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Re: 8X01 "Deep Breath" Grading/Discussion)(SPOILERS!)

Candlelight wrote: View Post
bigdaddy wrote: View Post
I like how people attack Moffat's style as being nonsense when RTD did the same crap and only worse. Drives me nuts.
At least RTD's stories were enjoyable.
No. RTD did a great job btinging the show back, but he's a horrible sci-fi writer - and he wrote almost all of the bad episodes.

Moff's run hasn't been perect, but it's head and shoulders better...
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Old August 24 2014, 02:21 PM   #86
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Re: 8X01 "Deep Breath" Grading/Discussion)(SPOILERS!)

YellowSubmarine wrote: View Post
I voted Scottish! only because I loved how the episode trolled people bothered by Capaldi's age (what?), and did several pretty powerful scenes around this and related subjects. I want more!
It came across to me that Moffat was trying to hard to calm people's fears over the age thing. He made it a bigger thing than it needed to be. I think he should have completely ignored it and to hell with what people think but addressing it the way he did made it seem like it was a problem and that didn't sit well with me.
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Old August 24 2014, 02:40 PM   #87
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Re: 8X01 "Deep Breath" Grading/Discussion)(SPOILERS!)

davejames wrote: View Post
So was that a snippet of the new Doctor's theme we heard when he was in his room in the nightgown? It was pretty cool, but a lot peppier than I would have expected for Capaldi's Doctor.
It sounded to me like a variation on "I Am The Doctor", rather than something new.
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Old August 24 2014, 02:50 PM   #88
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Re: 8X01 "Deep Breath" Grading/Discussion)(SPOILERS!)

Timewalker wrote: View Post
Joel_Kirk wrote: View Post
SJSharksfan39 wrote: View Post
It seemed like Doctor Who in the States got more popular in the Matt Smith Era (You now have pre and post shows with Chris Hardwick for one) so maybe this was to make the US fans happy and I appreciated it.
I was under the impression that it was popular in the US when Tom Baker was the Doctor...
It was. There were Doctor Who conventions, just like there were Star Trek conventions, and a lot of years it was the Whovians PBS had to thank for a noticeable chunk of their donations. Heaven forbid the classic era should ever get credit for being popular in North America.

As for this new episode: I'll have to rewatch it, since I fell asleep partway through.
Where there theatrical events, pre or post shows, doctor who specials, or a one hour special identifying who the new Doctor was during the Classic Doctor era? No. The classic era probably was popular, but not as popular as the show is now in its current state.
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Old August 24 2014, 03:00 PM   #89
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Re: 8X01 "Deep Breath" Grading/Discussion)(SPOILERS!)

Relayer1 wrote: View Post
Candlelight wrote: View Post
bigdaddy wrote: View Post
I like how people attack Moffat's style as being nonsense when RTD did the same crap and only worse. Drives me nuts.
At least RTD's stories were enjoyable.
No. RTD did a great job btinging the show back, but he's a horrible sci-fi writer - and he wrote almost all of the bad episodes.
I think he wrote almost all the mediocre episodes rather than the bad ones. Of course, he wrote about half the episodes so that makes sense. Fear Her, Daleks in Manhattan, Evolution of the Daleks, and the Lazarus Experiment are generally put among the worst. On the other hand, I quite like Gridlock, Midnight, and Turn Left. And while his finals were never great, I can't put them among the worst.

RTD always seemed to write like whatever popped into his head is what went on the screen and then wrote until he finished the story. It was never bad, but it usually ended poorly. The Next Doctor is a good example - ending with a crazy stupid Victorian robot. But even Love and Monsters is usually only criticized for its ending not the entire episode. I think people like the sort of Lower Decks exploration of how the Doctor affected ordinary people's lives.

I agree that he deserves more credit for bringing the show back than for his individual episodes, but I also think he deserves more credit as a writer than you're giving him. Of course, taste is subjective. I think Moffatt has written better stories both individually and as show-runner, but I also recognize that that's just like my opinion, man.
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Old August 24 2014, 03:18 PM   #90
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Re: 8X01 "Deep Breath" Grading/Discussion)(SPOILERS!)

Alidar Jarok wrote: View Post
Relayer1 wrote: View Post
Candlelight wrote: View Post

At least RTD's stories were enjoyable.
No. RTD did a great job btinging the show back, but he's a horrible sci-fi writer - and he wrote almost all of the bad episodes.
I think he wrote almost all the mediocre episodes rather than the bad ones. Of course, he wrote about half the episodes so that makes sense. Fear Her, Daleks in Manhattan, Evolution of the Daleks, and the Lazarus Experiment are generally put among the worst.
Helen Raynor wrote the Dalek two parter and Stephen Greenhorn wrote The Lazarus Experiment.
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