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Star Trek - Original Series The one that started it all...

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Old August 20 2014, 03:41 PM   #1
EnriqueH
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The Animated Series

So I'm seeing TAS in production order, and I've seen the first four up to The Survivor.

It's entertaining, though a little weird too. I think it's the transformation of live action to animation? I can't put my finger on it, but one thing is for sure, it's great to hear the actor's voices and the writing is strong.

Yesteryear was a strong episode. I-Chaya dying was tough. I can't imagine little kids watching some of this stuff.

Beyond the Farthest Star with the alien being stranded alone was also a bit sad for kids.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, it was intended for families not kiddies, which is great but I wasn't expecting it to be this adult oriented. Great stuff.

Has there ever been talk of updating the animation similar to what they did for TOS?

I'd be curious to see what they could do with this show.
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Old August 20 2014, 04:24 PM   #2
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Re: The Animated Series

EnriqueH wrote: View Post
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it was intended for families not kiddies, which is great but I wasn't expecting it to be this adult oriented. Great stuff.
TAS was actually intended and promoted as the first Saturday morning animated series made for adult audiences, though of course it had to be suitable for younger viewers as well. Aside from toning down the sex and violence, they wrote it the same way they approached TOS.


Has there ever been talk of updating the animation similar to what they did for TOS?

I'd be curious to see what they could do with this show.
There's no good reason to do that. The only reason the effects were redone for TOS-R was that they didn't have the original FX elements and thus couldn't recomposite them in high definition. It wasn't about updating things just for the sake of updating them. On the subsequent TNG remastering project, they've striven to preserve the original image elements and shot compositions as completely as they could.
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Old August 20 2014, 05:16 PM   #3
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Re: The Animated Series

EnriqueH wrote: View Post
Has there ever been talk of updating the animation similar to what they did for TOS?

I'd be curious to see what they could do with this show.
I agree with christopher that there's no need to update TAS. However, I wouldn't mind seeing new stories done in the kind of CGI/animation style as the Clone Wars series used. you could do pretty-much anything you wanted with it, given the right voice-actors - TOS/TAS, TNG, DSN, etc. In some cases you might even get some of the original actors to do voices for their characters. But any era could be in play from episode to episode if you wanted. Or you could just focus on one ship/crew and have a consistent ongoing story-line, with maybe the occasional era-jump to the past or future.

Wonder how much it't cost to lure Dave filoni away from Lucas...
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Old August 20 2014, 05:27 PM   #4
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Re: The Animated Series

Christopher wrote: View Post
EnriqueH wrote: View Post
Has there ever been talk of updating the animation similar to what they did for TOS?

I'd be curious to see what they could do with this show.
There's no good reason to do that. The only reason the effects were redone for TOS-R was that they didn't have the original FX elements and thus couldn't recomposite them in high definition. It wasn't about updating things just for the sake of updating them. On the subsequent TNG remastering project, they've striven to preserve the original image elements and shot compositions as completely as they could.
But even TNG-R has fixed obvious errors, such as the phaser/torpedo goof in "Darmok". There's no reason TAS-R couldn't do the same.

For example, characters wearing the wrong uniform colors (yes, yes, I know, Hal Sutherland was colorblind, but it's still fixable), or the Enterprise flying sideways. Those can be fixed, I should think.
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Old August 20 2014, 05:59 PM   #5
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Re: The Animated Series

One of my favorites is when Uhura is moving her arm to open a door, her sleve is blue. Not the whole uniform, just the moving arm's sleve.
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Old August 20 2014, 06:08 PM   #6
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Re: The Animated Series

Or, in another shot, the head of M'Ress was placed upon the body of Uhura, so she went from being essentially "flat chested" to a "D" cup! Probably not as absurd as having uhura turn "white" one time.

Sincerely,

Bill
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Old August 20 2014, 06:09 PM   #7
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Re: The Animated Series

Mysterion wrote: View Post
However, I wouldn't mind seeing new stories done in the kind of CGI/animation style as the Clone Wars series used.
Ohh, please, no. 3D computer animation is trendy these days, but it's hard to do well, and only really looks good if you can put a lot of time and money into it. So unless you have a Lucasfilm-level budget, you can't really do it as well on television as you can in movies. A lot of the 3D-animated shows that are fashionable today look a lot cruder than their 2D counterparts. Compare something like Green Lantern: The Animated Series or Beware the Batman to something like Young Justice and it's clear that the 3D just does not measure up in quality or richness. Every single background character or object has to be modeled individually, unlike in 2D where you can easily draw a bunch of extras, so 3D animated series tend to be set in unnaturally empty worlds and tend to recycle characters and locations. Basically a lot of present-day 3D shows are under the same kind of budget limitations that TAS was under in its day. The state of the art of 2D animation on a TV budget is much more advanced today and the shows are much better-looking as a result. But unfortunately fashion trumps quality, and it's increasingly hard to find 2D shows anymore. (Though 3D shows like Kung Fu Panda: Legends of Awesomeness and Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles try to keep 2D alive in dream and fantasy sequences -- and the first season of TMNT featured a fantastically authentic-looking TAS parody show as a running gag, followed by a less accurate Voltron parody in the current season.)
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Old August 20 2014, 06:50 PM   #8
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Re: The Animated Series

Redfern wrote: View Post
Or, in another shot, the head of M'Ress was placed upon the body of Uhura, so she went from being essentially "flat chested" to a "D" cup! Probably not as absurd as having uhura turn "white" one time.

Sincerely,

Bill
Are you thinking of that shot in the rec room/"holodeck" in "The Practical Joker" when they painted Chapel in place of Uhura?
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Old August 20 2014, 07:04 PM   #9
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Re: The Animated Series

I thought there was an instance of Uhura sitting at her comm' station of the bridge with the "camera" positioned overhead with a "fisheye" lens view of the room. She wore a red uniform and had black hair, but only her skin suffered the "goof".

But I could easily be mistaken.

Sincerely,

Bill
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Old August 20 2014, 07:18 PM   #10
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Re: The Animated Series

Christopher wrote: View Post
EnriqueH wrote: View Post
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it was intended for families not kiddies, which is great but I wasn't expecting it to be this adult oriented. Great stuff.
TAS was actually intended and promoted as the first Saturday morning animated series made for adult audiences, though of course it had to be suitable for younger viewers as well. Aside from toning down the sex and violence, they wrote it the same way they approached TOS.
No, I realize that. But it's more adult oriented than I expected. I'm glad. Very good first four episodes.


There's no good reason to do that. The only reason the effects were redone for TOS-R was that they didn't have the original FX elements and thus couldn't recomposite them in high definition. It wasn't about updating things just for the sake of updating them. On the subsequent TNG remastering project, they've striven to preserve the original image elements and shot compositions as completely as they could.
Well, what I love about the remastering project is that they made both the original and remastered versions available in the same set, which is what many think George Lucas should've done with the Original Trilogy.

Anyway, the only reason I mention updating the effects is that I've heard the criticism of the show is primarily due to the animation being rather limited.
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Old August 20 2014, 07:31 PM   #11
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Re: The Animated Series

EnriqueH wrote: View Post
Anyway, the only reason I mention updating the effects is that I've heard the criticism of the show is primarily due to the animation being rather limited.
By the standards of Saturday morning television animation in the early 1970s, it was actually pretty well-made. Animation is an art form/technology that's advanced considerably over the decades, and TAS is simply a representative of the state of the art for television of that era. Would you want to refilm a Buster Keaton movie with color and sound?
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Old August 20 2014, 08:14 PM   #12
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Re: The Animated Series

Not necessarily, no. And I agree with you about the animation. It doesn't look unlike animation of Masters of the Universe, which I did watch back in 3rd grade. So I have no problem with it.

But again, I've always heard/read criticisms directed at TAS based on its "lackluster animation".

In fact, my whole life---I don't think I've ever been part of a discussion involving TAS that doesn't have at least one person dissing the animation.

So I'm just assuming from life experience that a lot of people have problems with the animation. Therefore, I'm just wondering aloud whether enhancing the animation has ever been a discussion.
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Old August 20 2014, 08:47 PM   #13
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Re: The Animated Series

EnriqueH wrote: View Post
It doesn't look unlike animation of Masters of the Universe, which I did watch back in 3rd grade.
Both shows were from Filmation Associates, so that's not surprising.


But again, I've always heard/read criticisms directed at TAS based on its "lackluster animation".

In fact, my whole life---I don't think I've ever been part of a discussion involving TAS that doesn't have at least one person dissing the animation.
Just because a lot of people say something, that doesn't make it objectively correct. Heck, it's the Internet -- mention anything and you'll draw in people who only want to complain about it.


So I'm just assuming from life experience that a lot of people have problems with the animation. Therefore, I'm just wondering aloud whether enhancing the animation has ever been a discussion.
On the Internet, it's been an ongoing discussion to the point of tedium. I doubt it's ever been seriously considered by Paramount or CBS, though, since it would be a very expensive undertaking and probably wouldn't draw in a large enough audience to justify the cost.
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Old August 20 2014, 09:10 PM   #14
EnriqueH
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Re: The Animated Series

Christopher wrote: View Post
EnriqueH wrote: View Post
It doesn't look unlike animation of Masters of the Universe, which I did watch back in 3rd grade.
Both shows were from Filmation Associates, so that's not surprising.
Yep. And Hal Sutherland not only directed TAS, but he also directed an episode of He-Man as well.



Just because a lot of people say something, that doesn't make it objectively correct. Heck, it's the Internet -- mention anything and you'll draw in people who only want to complain about it.
Who said it made it correct? All I said is that my whole life, I've always heard criticisms, so it made me wonder if it generated talk of enhanced versions.


I doubt it's ever been seriously considered by Paramount or CBS, though, since it would be a very expensive undertaking and probably wouldn't draw in a large enough audience to justify the cost.
Hmmm, I wonder. You might be right. I know Shatner said Paramount laughed him out of the office, or something to that effect, when he mentioned doing a director's cut of Star Trek V.
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Old August 20 2014, 09:17 PM   #15
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Re: The Animated Series

Christopher is correct that technically TAS is typical of the state of the art in TV animation of the period.

It's true that "Animation is an art form/technology that's advanced considerably over the decades", but, for those unfamiliar with animation history, it's worth pointing out that what pre-CG TV animation represented was the "state of the art on the super cheap" as opposed to the state of the art in animation in general. One look at the truly fluid animation in a theatrical short from 30 years earlier than TAS will prove that out.

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