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Star Trek - Original Series The one that started it all...

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Old August 20 2014, 07:32 PM   #31
BillJ
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Re: The Cage & Captain Pike

EnriqueH wrote: View Post

But as a story, I thought The Cage looked and felt more polished as well as elegant. Where No Man, feels a bit clunkier to me despite having a more energetic cast.
I tend to think you can get away with more with a more energetic cast. Could you see Hunter and Nimoy fighting to the death with lirpas? Or Hunter playing the crazed ex-girlfriend inhabiting Pike's body?

There was a boldness about Shatner that allowed him to convincingly sell the most outlandish material.
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Old August 20 2014, 07:46 PM   #32
EnriqueH
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Re: The Cage & Captain Pike

BillJ wrote: View Post
EnriqueH wrote: View Post

But as a story, I thought The Cage looked and felt more polished as well as elegant. Where No Man, feels a bit clunkier to me despite having a more energetic cast.
There was a boldness about Shatner that allowed him to convincingly sell the most outlandish material.
I agree with you.

I don't think you and some others understand.

I love Shatner.

Shatner is not really figuring into this discussion.

This is about The Cage and Pike and maybe a little "Where No Man" vs "The Cage thrown in.

I'm not criticizing Shatner or even suggesting someone else should've played the lead. That would be sacrilegious.

What I am saying is that I thought The Cage was a better story and was executed better even though Where No Man obviously had a better cast.
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Old August 20 2014, 08:41 PM   #33
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Re: The Cage & Captain Pike

EnriqueH wrote: View Post

What I am saying is that I thought The Cage was a better story and was executed better even though Where No Man obviously had a better cast.
I like both, but if I to pick one to be stranded on a desert island with? It would easily be "Where No Man..."

So much of the acting in "The Cage" comes across as awkward and I'm not sure it is something that would've improved. The cast of "The Cage" just didn't have any real chemistry. I think the story is solid with some big ideas, but "Where No Man..." also is solid with big ideas.
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Old August 20 2014, 08:48 PM   #34
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Re: The Cage & Captain Pike

I can see that.

I think The Cage is better, but I'd probably pick Where No Man based on Shatner alone.

Kinda how like I think Rocky I is the "best" Rocky film, but Rocky II is my "favorite" and would rather own Rocky II.
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Old August 20 2014, 08:53 PM   #35
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Re: The Cage & Captain Pike

EnriqueH wrote: View Post
Kinda how like I think Rocky I is the "best" Rocky film, but Rocky II is my "favorite" and would rather own Rocky II.
Rocky IV!

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Old August 20 2014, 09:03 PM   #36
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Re: The Cage & Captain Pike

Ha!

I like Rocky IV too.

I think everyone feels the same about the Rocky series, "Yeah, Rocky I is the best but ___is my favorite."
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Old August 20 2014, 09:12 PM   #37
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Re: The Cage & Captain Pike

EnriqueH wrote: View Post
But as a story, I thought The Cage looked and felt more polished as well as elegant. Where No Man, feels a bit clunkier to me despite having a more energetic cast.
I disagree. No version of "The Cage" I've seen flows particularly well, and the ending ("Oh, well, I guess we can't use you after all") is pretty anti-climatic. What I like about "The Cage" is that the captain's character arc is tied to the main story in a sophisticated way that we rarely saw later on.
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Old August 23 2014, 02:57 PM   #38
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Re: The Cage & Captain Pike

EnriqueH wrote: View Post
How do you guys feel about The Cage?

I find that the episode has grown on me considerably over the years. I love it.

I would love to have seen a few more adventures with this cast. I find that it lends itself to multiple viewings. I liked the relationship between Pike and Boyce, particularly.
In my perfect little TOS fantasy world, they would have retained Jeffrey Hunter, the supporting cast and Majel Barret's brunette wig, the sets and props, and given us a dozen or so episodes or significant flashback sequences of that "Cage era" Trek. I go back to The Cage annually it seems. I love the look, the feel and the differences....even if they aren't perfect or rough around the edges.

On that note, there is one change I would make.....tone down Spock's eyebrows to regular TOS standard.

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Old August 23 2014, 03:00 PM   #39
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Re: The Cage & Captain Pike

AtoZ, you just gave me a wonderful idea.

Can you imagine if we had a Season 1 of Star Trek from 1964-1965 with Captain Pike and The Cage cast similar to the way we have the first season of Mission: Impossible with Steven Hill?

And then we could start 1966 in the exact same way with "Where No Man..."

Four seasons of Star Trek TOS!
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Old August 23 2014, 03:14 PM   #40
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Re: The Cage & Captain Pike

Pike was boring.
Number One was boring.

The crew were too WASP and serious for my liking in retrospect.

But in regular episodes who knows how they might have turned out. Number One had potential if she had seem less depressed or something. I sort of can see Hunter in the first couple of episodes of TOS but I just can't see Shatner in the Cage. He would have been winking at the camera or something.

But I agree with ATOZ that there was a certain look and feel to the Cage. I wish they had tried to recreate it in the newer movies with a modern twist.
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Old August 23 2014, 03:23 PM   #41
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Re: The Cage & Captain Pike

EnriqueH wrote: View Post
AtoZ, you just gave me a wonderful idea.

Can you imagine if we had a Season 1 of Star Trek from 1964-1965 with Captain Pike and The Cage cast similar to the way we have the first season of Mission: Impossible with Steven Hill?

And then we could start 1966 in the exact same way with "Where No Man..."

Four seasons of Star Trek TOS!
Something like this.





















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Old August 23 2014, 11:09 PM   #42
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Re: The Cage & Captain Pike

I'm pretty sure it wouldn't have looked quite like that.
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Old August 23 2014, 11:18 PM   #43
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Re: The Cage & Captain Pike

I think it's overstating things to say NBC implied that Majel couldn't act. Solow and Justman say it was more like "We're fine with Jeff Hunter, and Nimoy is okay too if you want to use him, but the rest of the cast... we can do better."

What any studio/network is going to look for from a cast is that je ne sais quoi that happens when the actor is on camera. You don't get that from most of "The Cage" cast. Servicable or fine isn't good enough. You want magic.
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Old August 23 2014, 11:41 PM   #44
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Re: The Cage & Captain Pike

AtoZ wrote: View Post
EnriqueH wrote: View Post
How do you guys feel about The Cage?

I find that the episode has grown on me considerably over the years. I love it.

I would love to have seen a few more adventures with this cast. I find that it lends itself to multiple viewings. I liked the relationship between Pike and Boyce, particularly.
In my perfect little TOS fantasy world, they would have retained Jeffrey Hunter, the supporting cast and Majel Barret's brunette wig, the sets and props, and given us a dozen or so episodes or significant flashback sequences of that "Cage era" Trek. I go back to The Cage annually it seems. I love the look, the feel and the differences....even if they aren't perfect or rough around the edges.

On that note, there is one change I would make.....tone down Spock's eyebrows to regular TOS standard.

I've always loved the style of The Cage, it has a 1950's sci-fi
look and feel to it, and meshes nicely with something like Forbidden Planet.
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Old August 24 2014, 12:08 AM   #45
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Re: The Cage & Captain Pike

Disco wrote: View Post
I wold largely agree with the sentiments above. I found Jeffrey Hunter's Captain Pike really interesting to watch; perhaps because Pike was so different to Kirk, much more like a normal person. I was very young when I first watched the epiosde and got confused watching Spock and seeing him smile. Number 1 was strong but didn't seem to have much depth (hard to establish in one episode) but the rest of the characters never left much of an impression on me.
Pike wasn't all that different than Kirk. They are the same character with different names at first. The earliest TOS episodes are "Pike". It's only when the writers begin to write for Shatner that the Kirk we know emerges. It's Shatner and what he brings that separates Kirk from Pike.
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