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Star Trek - Original Series The one that started it all...

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Old August 20 2014, 11:26 AM   #16
Warped9
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Re: The Cage & Captain Pike

BillJ wrote: View Post
I thoroughly enjoyed Star Trek: Early Voyages. A series cancelled far too soon.
Me, too. But the art started getting sloppy at the end (they already knew the title was cancelled). I also didn't care for the time traveling story sending Yeoman Colt to the movie era--way too fannish.

But prior to that I quite liked it and I have all the issues.

A few years ago I began writing a Pike era story that picks up shortly after "The Cage." I called it Neverland and it was a first contact story where they first encounter the Vedala. The mysterious Vedala were first seen briefly in TAS' "Jihad." The story also featured a younger Councillor Sarek.

I also touched on some early world building ideas: there weren't yet "twelve like her" in the fleet, Spock's burgeoning loyalty to Pike and Sarek's more overt disapproval of a much younger Spock, a female captain of a Constitution-class starship and a few other things. I also gave Number One a name.

I also did some photoshopped images for it.



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Old August 20 2014, 11:29 AM   #17
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Re: The Cage & Captain Pike

I was thinking in terms of another female officer with Number One's qualities. Did we ever get one?
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Old August 20 2014, 11:40 AM   #18
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Re: The Cage & Captain Pike

EnriqueH wrote: View Post
How do you guys feel about The Cage?

I find that the episode has grown on me considerably over the years. I love it.

I would love to have seen a few more adventures with this cast. I find that it lends itself to multiple viewings. I liked the relationship between Pike and Boyce, particularly.
I thought it was dull, and the characters cold. I much prefer the colourful characters of TOS.
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Old August 20 2014, 11:56 AM   #19
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Re: The Cage & Captain Pike

Disco wrote: View Post
Wasn't Number 1's redeeming traits her knowledge, single mindedness and focus? Seems to me she was merged into Spock.
Exactly. Nimoy didn't have much material to work with for Spock in "The Cage", and he was just a weird looking dude with a personality not much different than the human male crewmembers. With Spock 1.5, Number One's characteristics were added to him, and Nimoy has said Shatner's lively approach gave him the opportunity to make Spock more subdued compared to 1.0 Spock.
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Old August 20 2014, 12:52 PM   #20
BillJ
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Re: The Cage & Captain Pike

Warped9 wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
I thoroughly enjoyed Star Trek: Early Voyages. A series cancelled far too soon.
Me, too. But the art started getting sloppy at the end (they already knew the title was cancelled). I also didn't care for the time traveling story sending Yeoman Colt to the movie era--way too fannish.
Meh. They were comics. Kind of what you get into when consuming that type of media.
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Old August 20 2014, 01:28 PM   #21
Warped9
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Re: The Cage & Captain Pike

BillJ wrote: View Post
Warped9 wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
I thoroughly enjoyed Star Trek: Early Voyages. A series cancelled far too soon.
Me, too. But the art started getting sloppy at the end (they already knew the title was cancelled). I also didn't care for the time traveling story sending Yeoman Colt to the movie era--way too fannish.
Meh. They were comics. Kind of what you get into when consuming that type of media.
Some damn fine stories have been done in comics and some of it has been adapted into other media such as film.
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Old August 20 2014, 03:17 PM   #22
EnriqueH
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Re: The Cage & Captain Pike

I should probably clarify that the intention is NOT to invite comparisons to the TOS that we all know and love.

Clearly TOS had the magic, but that's not in dispute.

This was intended as a discussion of The Cage and Captain Pike in and of themselves.

I would love to watch a few more episodes to get a better idea of who those characters were.
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Old August 20 2014, 03:28 PM   #23
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Re: The Cage & Captain Pike

Warped9 wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
Warped9 wrote: View Post
Me, too. But the art started getting sloppy at the end (they already knew the title was cancelled). I also didn't care for the time traveling story sending Yeoman Colt to the movie era--way too fannish.
Meh. They were comics. Kind of what you get into when consuming that type of media.
Some damn fine stories have been done in comics and some of it has been adapted into other media such as film.
Okay? Doesn't change the point that comics, as an overall medium, is wildly inconsistent. With rapidly changing writing and art teams, some that go for the more far-fetched than others.

It isn't a slam, just a realistic assessment of the medium.
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Old August 20 2014, 03:31 PM   #24
Warped9
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Re: The Cage & Captain Pike

BillJ wrote: View Post
Warped9 wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post

Meh. They were comics. Kind of what you get into when consuming that type of media.
Some damn fine stories have been done in comics and some of it has been adapted into other media such as film.
Okay? Doesn't change the point that comics, as an overall medium, is wildly inconsistent. With rapidly changing writing and art teams, some that go for the more far-fetched than others.

It isn't a slam, just a realistic assessment of the medium.
Every medium is wildly inconsistent.
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Old August 20 2014, 03:34 PM   #25
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Re: The Cage & Captain Pike

Warped9 wrote: View Post
Every medium is wildly inconsistent.
I think comics are more so because you can go from a great artist to a poor artist in the span of thirty days and it can really affect the feel of a given book/story. For the most part, when dealing with TV and movies, the look is usually consistent for the duration of a story/series.
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Old August 20 2014, 03:45 PM   #26
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Re: The Cage & Captain Pike

EnriqueH wrote: View Post
This was intended as a discussion of The Cage and Captain Pike in and of themselves.

I would love to watch a few more episodes to get a better idea of who those characters were.
That's the thing. We have little to no idea how things would have panned out if NBC had gone with "The Cage" version of Star Trek. The characters would have been fleshed outand more detail and nuance would have come forth. As is we can only speculate.

It's interesting to consider how it might have played out with a different director. Was the cast of WNMHGB really so much better or was it possible the director got more out of them? One can see all the essential concepts present in "The Cage," but in many instances it's not fully realized whereas in WNMHGB everything seems to have an added dynamic to it.

Of course, part of it is the production's second time around so they were able to finesse things they hadn't gotten quite right the first time around.


Pike could or might have been more Picard like in overall character if Jeffery Hunter had stayed and NBC had gone forward from "The Cage." Indeed all the characters might have benefitted. As is I think Pike and Boyce were the only ones who seemed most three dimensional. John Hoyt had a naturalness to his performance that would have fit right into WNMHGB.

For me the strength of "The Cage" is its story, its overall execution and the ideas it put forth. It sells the idea Roddenberry had by about 90 percent. In some measure it presages what eventually happened in TMP--the ideas are all there, but something extra is missing.
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Old August 20 2014, 04:20 PM   #27
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Re: The Cage & Captain Pike

I liked Dr Boyce. John Hoyt was good in that role and he seemed to be really more than just the doctor, he was in on decision making and seemed to represent at least part of the science division as well.

I heard that they didn't want #1 because Majel wasn't a good enough actress, I didn't think she was so bad, but she and Pike were somewhat flat and even to the point of someone interpreting them as bland. I didn't see it that way myself, but the dynamic that Hoyt or Nimoy had when they had their lines is missing with them. Now, if you're playing a flat emotionless character, that's fine, but it can confuse people that don't realize it's supposed to be that way and think it's just bad acting. But that's a serious drag on a show if two of the leads seem to be sub par.

Most of the other characters didn't get enough to really say too much, but I liked Tyler and Colt, and the other bridge and landing party people seemed competent. That is an important point, I think, though, even though they are background characters/extras if they appear foolish or not believable it doesn't matter how good your leads are, the whole setting is damaged, and setting is extremely important to science fiction.

There are other things, art direction, set design, effects work, these are all independent of the actors but are still important, I thought they were all good for The Cage.
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Old August 20 2014, 04:33 PM   #28
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Re: The Cage & Captain Pike

Lance wrote: View Post
But I *do* actually like Majel Barrett as 'Number One'.
And yet the studio thought she couldn't act, and some on this board come across as though they also believe she couldn't (maybe because of the underlying nepotism that seemed to be at play in her getting the role).

The truth is probably somewhere in the middle. It's been stated many times that Number One was intentionally meant to be rather cold and distant, even more than Spock is presented really. And maybe that was interpreted as "she can't act" because they were expecting a warmer, more feminine presence. If so, that would still fall in line with certain chauvinistic attitudes.
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Old August 20 2014, 04:35 PM   #29
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Re: The Cage & Captain Pike

"The Cage" reminds me a great deal of TMP. Both of them are essentially trying something new, and both of them go for a cerebral aspect that has the potential to be alienating (no puns intended). And, for me anyway, both of them are overshadowed by the following installment.
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Old August 20 2014, 07:13 PM   #30
EnriqueH
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Re: The Cage & Captain Pike

I prefer The Cage vastly over Where No Man as a story.

Number One and Pike were both reserved people, so I definitely think Marsden and Mos have a good point where you had the two leads being reserved. They would've had to change that a bit.

In "Where No Man...", I definitely loved Shatner and Nimoy's chemistry: it was alive and you can definitely see the vitality between these two compared to Pike-Number One.

In fact, you can sense the energy even from Doohan and Takei, despite their very limited screen time.

Like Marsden, I too liked Boyce a lot. I would've enjoyed seeing a bit more of him with Pike. It was similar to Kirk-Bones, but it was also different in a way.

As for Majel's acting ability, I'm not so sure it was her acting as it was the role itself. I thought she did a fine job in "What Are Little Girls Made Of", but in The Cage, something was missing. I think it may have been the role: cold and detached. It sounds good on paper, but didn't work as well on screen. I don't think it's Majel. I just think you had a detached captain and a detached Spock. Everyone was detached and to themselves in a way. If Nimoy couldn't find his way around Pike, then how could Majel?

But as a story, I thought The Cage looked and felt more polished as well as elegant. Where No Man, feels a bit clunkier to me despite having a more energetic cast.
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