RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 141,354
Posts: 5,502,949
Members: 25,121
Currently online: 610
Newest member: MsMarrielle

TrekToday headlines

IDW Publishing March 2015 Comics
By: T'Bonz on Dec 17

Paramount Star Trek 3 Expectations
By: T'Bonz on Dec 17

Star Trek #39 Sneak Peek
By: T'Bonz on Dec 16

Star Trek 3 Potential Director Shortlist
By: T'Bonz on Dec 16

Official Starships Collection Update
By: T'Bonz on Dec 15

Retro Review: Prodigal Daughter
By: Michelle on Dec 13

Sindicate Lager To Debut In The US Next Week
By: T'Bonz on Dec 12

Rumor Mill: Saldana Gives Birth
By: T'Bonz on Dec 12

New Line of Anovos Enterprise Uniforms
By: T'Bonz on Dec 11

Frakes: Sign Me Up!
By: T'Bonz on Dec 11


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > Star Trek - Original Series

Star Trek - Original Series The one that started it all...

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old August 22 2014, 04:41 AM   #46
Cookies and Cake
Admiral
 
Location: North America
Re: Some dark thoughts about the Mirror Kirků

Well, the Halkans do say, "We accept that your Federation is benevolent at present, but the future is always in question." (Emphasis mine)

Maybe their experience with the multiverse has shown them bad things.

Perhaps the trip to the Mirror Universe isn't only a test of character. Perhaps it is also a demonstration to Kirk and company of the reason why the Halkans are morally obligated not to budge.
__________________
CorporalCaptain
Cookies and Cake is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 22 2014, 01:02 PM   #47
Marsden
Captain
 
Marsden's Avatar
 
Location: The Temple of Syrinx
Re: Some dark thoughts about the Mirror Kirků

LMFAOschwarz wrote: View Post
I never did get the significance of the acid spot. Aside from the fact that we never saw the acid burn in our (well, their) universe, I'm not sure what that bit proved. Also, I'm no doctor, but what exactly was McCoy dong with acid in the first place?
I assume it was mixing a PanGalactic Gargle Blaster.


I think it was to further doubt for the characters and audience about it being a parallel universe or some other thing happened to the people on the Enterprise.

Actually, I never thought about it, but the original version of City on the Edge of Forever's alternate Enterprise seems to resemble the Mirror Universe, somewhat. I wonder if there was some recycling going on?
__________________
We've taken care of everything, the words you hear the songs you sing, the pictures that give pleasure to your eyes. It's one for all and all for one, we work together common sons, never need to wonder how or why.
Marsden is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 22 2014, 11:59 PM   #48
LMFAOschwarz
Fleet Captain
 
LMFAOschwarz's Avatar
 
Re: Some dark thoughts about the Mirror Kirků

Marsden wrote: View Post
I think it was to further doubt for the characters and audience about it being a parallel universe or some other thing happened to the people on the Enterprise.
That's exactly the thing I didn't get, Marsden: if McCoy had pointed to the table and said "I spilled acid there a year ago." and the table was pristine, it would make more sense. As it is, the acid stain is there, which to me is contradictory to that point.

It could also be that dummy me is missing the obvious again.
LMFAOschwarz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 23 2014, 12:04 AM   #49
Cookies and Cake
Admiral
 
Location: North America
Re: Some dark thoughts about the Mirror Kirků

The acid spill is mentioned to underscore the reality of the situation, to prove that it is a parallel universe and not a trick or deception by some party who's duplicated the Enterprise from plans of the ship. That detail was evidently known only by McCoy. And, it's obviously not the real ship, ergo they must really be in a parallel universe.
__________________
CorporalCaptain
Cookies and Cake is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 23 2014, 12:10 AM   #50
LMFAOschwarz
Fleet Captain
 
LMFAOschwarz's Avatar
 
Re: Some dark thoughts about the Mirror Kirků

CorporalCaptain wrote: View Post
The acid spill is mentioned to underscore the reality of the situation, to prove that it is a parallel universe and not a trick or deception by some party who's duplicated the Enterprise from plans of the ship. That detail was evidently known only by McCoy. And, it's obviously not the real ship, ergo they must really be in a parallel universe.
Oooh, I get it now.

In other words, that was an extremely polite way of saying that dummy me missed the obvious.
LMFAOschwarz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 23 2014, 12:21 AM   #51
TiberiusMaximus
Fleet Captain
 
TiberiusMaximus's Avatar
 
Location: A ship, a living ship, full of strange alien lifeforms.
Re: Some dark thoughts about the Mirror Kirků

I think they were physically transported into the other uniforms. Perhaps a human's bio-electric field interacts differently with the transporter than a non-living piece of cloth, explaining why they swapped physical locations with their counterparts but their respective uniforms remained in their original universes. Does that make any sense?

As for why visitors from the Mirror Universe didn't show up naked in DS9, remember that the first crossover back in TOS was an accident, but the crossovers in DS9 were done using technology designed specifically for that purpose.
__________________
"Quite possibly, the five Jem'Hadar could turn Data into a collection of four spasming limbs, one helpless torso, and one head that shouts insults at them like the Black Knight from the Monty Python sketch." -Timo Saloniemi
TiberiusMaximus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 23 2014, 12:22 AM   #52
LMFAOschwarz
Fleet Captain
 
LMFAOschwarz's Avatar
 
Re: Some dark thoughts about the Mirror Kirků

Melakon wrote: View Post
We know nothing about their (Halkan) culture or technology, except that they're peaceniks who like sitting outdoors and watching ion storms.
That could, though, suggest a lot. Perhaps as part of their peaceful society, their equivalents of congress or senate may meet outdoors. In their view maybe such events behind walls could be an invite to sneaky goings-on and the like, so they choose a way more inducive to "bringing things out in the open", literally, for all to see.
LMFAOschwarz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 23 2014, 04:01 AM   #53
Marsden
Captain
 
Marsden's Avatar
 
Location: The Temple of Syrinx
Re: Some dark thoughts about the Mirror Kirků

LMFAOschwarz wrote: View Post
CorporalCaptain wrote: View Post
The acid spill is mentioned to underscore the reality of the situation, to prove that it is a parallel universe and not a trick or deception by some party who's duplicated the Enterprise from plans of the ship. That detail was evidently known only by McCoy. And, it's obviously not the real ship, ergo they must really be in a parallel universe.
Oooh, I get it now.

In other words, that was an extremely polite way of saying that dummy me missed the obvious.
I think CC explained that much much better than I did.
__________________
We've taken care of everything, the words you hear the songs you sing, the pictures that give pleasure to your eyes. It's one for all and all for one, we work together common sons, never need to wonder how or why.
Marsden is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 23 2014, 06:50 AM   #54
Brutal Strudel
Rear Admiral
 
Brutal Strudel's Avatar
 
Location: Here, frozen between time and place, not even the brightest lights escape...
Re: Some dark thoughts about the Mirror Kirků

First, I think Kirk's motivation in putting MirrorSpock in a position where he would quite probably have to kill MirrorKirk stemmed from love and hate: Kirk's love for Spock and his own deep-seated feelings of hatred toward himself.

Love is blind: the first thing Kirk witnesses MSpock do is press an agonizer to MKyle's chest and torture him into unconsciousness for a minor error. MSpock, for all his unemotional mien, continually reveals himself to be right at home with the Empire's brutality and genocide--the only thing he does that indicates he goes beyond the system is warn Kirk of Starfleet's confidential orders to kill Kirk if he doesn't destroy the Halkans. MSpock also--logically but not compassionately--faciltates the return of our people to their Enterprise. From those acts, Kirk chooses to see the brother he has trusted with his life, ignoring the ruthless torturer and murderer MSpock clearly is.

As for MirrorKirk, he represented those qualities Kirk hates most in himself--and Kirk could be a real bastard, particularly in the early episodes ("The Man Trap" comes to mind) and in TMP. And because MKirk is Kirk, Kirk may have unconsciously figured MKirk's life was his to dispose of, especially if it meant saving an entire planet-ful of people.

Now, as far as DS9's forays into the Mirror Universe, the first such visit was the result of a runabout getting zapped in the wormhole. And contrary to something said up-thread, the passage from Prime Universe into the Mirror Universe did not always require displacement of the counterpart--Major Kira had to fend off the advances of the Intendent. And, because the mechanism was so very different, the direct passing of ships and people between universes via the wormhole or other dimensional portal rather than a transporter mishap, it doesn't rule out that, in TOS, Kirk and company experience a life-entity transfer a la "Turnabout Intruder." It doesn't have to be either/or.
__________________
Once every lifetime, we're swallowed by the whale.
Brutal Strudel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 23 2014, 06:06 PM   #55
Joska Daro
Ensign
 
Re: Some dark thoughts about the Mirror Kirků

As for MirrorKirk, he represented those qualities Kirk hates most in himself--and Kirk could be a real bastard, particularly in the early episodes ("The Man Trap" comes to mind) and in TMP. And because MKirk is Kirk, Kirk may have unconsciously figured MKirk's life was his to dispose of, especially if it meant saving an entire planet-ful of people.
Oh god that's exactly what I tried so hard to figure out yet failed. Thank you soooo much.
"Mirror Kirk's life was his to dispose of. " Because Mirror Kirk is Kirk and MKirk's qualities repels Kirk and the universe is a mistake, he can trust MSpock because he can trust his logic(although MSpock's loyalty/friendship/love/whatsoever is toward MKirk). He can't trust his own counterpart because he know that guy is a thug. MKirk lived in the wrong environment and became the wrong person and he is a mistake and logically should be corrected.
(And since he is Jim Kirk himself he may not even feel gulty for killing someone. That's the point. )
__________________
New here. Not good at English(sorry for any mistakes).
Chinese slash girl.
Joska Daro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 23 2014, 07:50 PM   #56
TiberiusMaximus
Fleet Captain
 
TiberiusMaximus's Avatar
 
Location: A ship, a living ship, full of strange alien lifeforms.
Re: Some dark thoughts about the Mirror Kirků

because the mechanism was so very different, the direct passing of ships and people between universes via the wormhole or other dimensional portal rather than a transporter mishap, it doesn't rule out that, in TOS, Kirk and company experience a life-entity transfer a la "Turnabout Intruder." It doesn't have to be either/or.
That's a good point. I had forgotten the first DS9 mirror trip was via the wormhole. Silly me.
__________________
"Quite possibly, the five Jem'Hadar could turn Data into a collection of four spasming limbs, one helpless torso, and one head that shouts insults at them like the Black Knight from the Monty Python sketch." -Timo Saloniemi
TiberiusMaximus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 30 2014, 08:05 PM   #57
cgervasi
Lieutenant
 
Location: Madison, WI
View cgervasi's Twitter Profile
Re: Some dark thoughts about the Mirror Kirků

Joska Daro wrote: View Post
So it looks like Kirk wants his counterpart die, not only for what mirror Kirk has done but also for his being Jim Kirk. The fact there is another Jim Kirk who is nothing but a villain makes him feel so bad that he wants him die. Butůthis doesn't feel right!
I think you might be right. The existence of someone who looks just like him bothers him. It's like a caricature made to show Kirk just how bad his personal flaws are.

He doesn't tell Spock explicitly to kill Kirk. He says be the captain of the Enterprise. He hopes, though, that Mirror Kirk will die.
cgervasi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 31 2014, 03:41 PM   #58
Joska Daro
Ensign
 
Re: Some dark thoughts about the Mirror Kirků

cgervasi wrote: View Post
Joska Daro wrote: View Post
So it looks like Kirk wants his counterpart die, not only for what mirror Kirk has done but also for his being Jim Kirk. The fact there is another Jim Kirk who is nothing but a villain makes him feel so bad that he wants him die. Butůthis doesn't feel right!
I think you might be right. The existence of someone who looks just like him bothers him. It's like a caricature made to show Kirk just how bad his personal flaws are.

He doesn't tell Spock explicitly to kill Kirk. He says be the captain of the Enterprise. He hopes, though, that Mirror Kirk will die.
And maybe he doesn't want to admit that he hopes Mirror Kirk will die.
Anyway nobody is perfect.
__________________
New here. Not good at English(sorry for any mistakes).
Chinese slash girl.
Joska Daro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 9 2014, 04:36 PM   #59
johnnybear
Lieutenant Commander
 
johnnybear's Avatar
 
Re: Some dark thoughts about the Mirror Kirků

McCoy only mentions the acid on the table because his sick bay is very different looking to his in the prime universe and the only similarity is the acid burn!
If the mirror universe is only an hallucination then how come Kirk recognizes Lt.Marlena Moreau as a new officer on the bridge and one that he unusually fails to hit it off with?
JB
johnnybear is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 07:06 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.