RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 146,433
Posts: 5,771,176
Members: 25,954
Currently online: 576
Newest member: numberone1989

TrekToday headlines

Deep Space Nine Frisbee
By: T'Bonz on Jul 6

Star Trek Attack Wing Wave 16
By: T'Bonz on Jul 6

Best of Both Worlds: The Daring Cliffhanger
By: T'Bonz on Jul 6

Trekonomics Book
By: T'Bonz on Jul 3

Shore Leave 37 Convention
By: T'Bonz on Jul 3

Two New ThinkGeek Trek-themed Items
By: T'Bonz on Jul 2

July-August 2015 Trek Conventions And Appearances
By: T'Bonz on Jul 2

Pegg: Star Trek Beyond Scary
By: T'Bonz on Jul 2

San Diego Comic-Con Guide
By: T'Bonz on Jul 1

Nimoy Memories From Friends and Family
By: T'Bonz on Jul 1


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > Star Trek - Original Series

Star Trek - Original Series The one that started it all...

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old August 15 2014, 07:50 AM   #31
T'Girl
Vice Admiral
 
T'Girl's Avatar
 
Location: Looking for somewhere to put my urine sample down
Re: Kirk's previous ship before Enterprise

J.T.B. wrote: View Post
Enterprise is a cruiser in the early-to-mid-20th century sense. [snip] the command of which is a pinnacle position for an officer in command of a single vessel.
For for the first half of the 20th century that would be a battleship, not a cruiser.

Then it was a aircraft carrier, not a cruiser.

T'Girl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 15 2014, 09:19 AM   #32
Ithekro
Commodore
 
Ithekro's Avatar
 
Location: Republic of California
Re: Kirk's previous ship before Enterprise

Save that battleships are usually kept in port (harbor queens) and carriers tend to not go anyplace alone.

Cruises were the ships that could operate alone and be used for showing the flag time missions, gunboat diplomacy, and any number of other missions.

Today there are very few cruisers, as a cruiser and a destroyer are almost the same thing these days. Cruisers tend to have flag officer facilities now where destroyers do not. But otherwise they are mostly the same thing since the 1980s.

The days of the heavy and light cruisers are long gone.
Ithekro is online now   Reply With Quote
Old August 15 2014, 01:47 PM   #33
J.T.B.
Commodore
 
J.T.B.'s Avatar
 
Re: Kirk's previous ship before Enterprise

T'Girl wrote: View Post
J.T.B. wrote: View Post
Enterprise is a cruiser in the early-to-mid-20th century sense. [snip] the command of which is a pinnacle position for an officer in command of a single vessel.
For for the first half of the 20th century that would be a battleship, not a cruiser.

Then it was a aircraft carrier, not a cruiser.
Not within the US Navy, which is why I wrote "a pinnacle" rather than "the pinnacle." There were not enough battleships for captains, who generally had only one command at sea, and carrier command was limited to those who had earned wings, which let out most naval officers. Cruiser command was not considered a lower-status assignment, was actually more desirable for some officers because of its often more varied overseas duty, and did not affect chances of promotion to flag rank. As an example, of WW2 four star admirals, Leahy, Spruance, Ingram and Edwards had commanded battleships, Nimitz, Ingersoll, Kinkaid, Hewitt and Turner cruisers, and King, Halsey and Horne carriers.

Ithekro wrote: View Post
Today there are very few cruisers, as a cruiser and a destroyer are almost the same thing these days. Cruisers tend to have flag officer facilities now where destroyers do not. But otherwise they are mostly the same thing since the 1980s.
Quite so, though a CG is generally a captain's command, and a DDG a commander's.

Last edited by J.T.B.; August 15 2014 at 01:59 PM.
J.T.B. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 15 2014, 02:15 PM   #34
BillJ
Admiral
 
BillJ's Avatar
 
Location: alt.nerd.obsessive.pic
View BillJ's Twitter Profile
Re: Kirk's previous ship before Enterprise

Albertese wrote: View Post
As a response to a challenge in the Art Forum a few months ago, I built my own take on Kirk's first command....









I made it to be something that could have been built as set-dressing during the run of the original show. It's a kitbash out of model kits that would have been available in the 60's. (that third pic is prior to decals)

But I like it.
I like this.

Warped9 wrote: View Post
I envision Kirk's first command looking something like Masao's Predator or Avenger-class: http://www.starfleet-museum.org/avenger-predator.htm

or perhaps this.





This just looks like a kitbash with nothing setting it apart from the Constitution class other than no secondary hull.
__________________
Self-appointed Knight of the Abrams Table! - Thanks Marsden!
BillJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 15 2014, 03:45 PM   #35
Warped9
Admiral
 
Warped9's Avatar
 
Location: Brockville, Ontario, Canada
Re: Kirk's previous ship before Enterprise

^^ Except that it fleshes out FJ's design (which so many accept) more credibly and doesn't look as awkward (I always thought that dangling nav dish looked stupid).

And in all candor most fan derived designs look like kitbashes. The trick is managing to make it look believable. The Reliant from TWOK also looks like a kitbash, but in a way that works. TNG and later Treks also had a lot of designs that looked like kitbashes, and a lot of them didn't look as good as some of the fan made efforts.

That said I still prefer Masao's Predator-class design as Kirk's first command.
__________________
STAR TREK: 1964-1991, 2013-?
Warped9 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old August 15 2014, 04:33 PM   #36
Warped9
Admiral
 
Warped9's Avatar
 
Location: Brockville, Ontario, Canada
Re: Kirk's previous ship before Enterprise

Albertese wrote: View Post
As a response to a challenge in the Art Forum a few months ago, I built my own take on Kirk's first command....






I like the overall concept of this.
__________________
STAR TREK: 1964-1991, 2013-?
Warped9 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old August 15 2014, 04:38 PM   #37
Christopher
Writer
 
Christopher's Avatar
 
Re: Kirk's previous ship before Enterprise

(Responding to the modified FJ destroyer images posted by Warped9) I dunno, sticking the deflector dish back on the dorsal strut like that seems like a poor idea, because the deflector beam has to be able to spread out conically ahead of the ship to provide full protection, and it looks like a lot of the top portion of the beam would be blocked by the underside of the saucer. I mean, good grief, in that front view you can even see the lower sensor dome cutting off the top edge of the dish. That just doesn't make sense. Ideally it should be much further forward, say, right on the forward edge of the saucer like NX-01's deflector dish.

And I don't think it's credible to try to cram Connie-type components like the rear hangar onto the FJ-style design, and it somewhat underlines the implausibility of that design in the first place. If a ship were designed to have only a saucer and no secondary hull, then it stands to reason that the saucer would be designed differently in the first place and have its own distinct style of deflector dish and hangar bays, as we've seen in the NX class with its wide, flat deflector dish and drop bays, or in the Miranda class with its enlarged aft section and rectangular hangar doors (though what the Miranda uses for a navigational deflector is an enduring mystery).
__________________
Written Worlds -- Christopher L. Bennett's blog and webpage
Christopher is online now   Reply With Quote
Old August 15 2014, 05:32 PM   #38
Hartzilla2007
Vice Admiral
 
Hartzilla2007's Avatar
 
Location: Star Trekkin Across the universe.
Re: Kirk's previous ship before Enterprise

Christopher wrote: View Post
(Responding to the modified FJ destroyer images posted by Warped9) I dunno, sticking the deflector dish back on the dorsal strut like that seems like a poor idea, because the deflector beam has to be able to spread out conically ahead of the ship to provide full protection, and it looks like a lot of the top portion of the beam would be blocked by the underside of the saucer. I mean, good grief, in that front view you can even see the lower sensor dome cutting off the top edge of the dish. That just doesn't make sense. Ideally it should be much further forward, say, right on the forward edge of the saucer like NX-01's deflector dish.

And I don't think it's credible to try to cram Connie-type components like the rear hangar onto the FJ-style design, and it somewhat underlines the implausibility of that design in the first place. If a ship were designed to have only a saucer and no secondary hull, then it stands to reason that the saucer would be designed differently in the first place and have its own distinct style of deflector dish and hangar bays, as we've seen in the NX class with its wide, flat deflector dish and drop bays, or in the Miranda class with its enlarged aft section and rectangular hangar doors (though what the Miranda uses for a navigational deflector is an enduring mystery).
This is probably why they added a secondary hull when making the Kelvin so they could avoid all these issues.
Hartzilla2007 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 15 2014, 05:50 PM   #39
Warped9
Admiral
 
Warped9's Avatar
 
Location: Brockville, Ontario, Canada
Re: Kirk's previous ship before Enterprise

Christopher wrote: View Post
(Responding to the modified FJ destroyer images posted by Warped9) I dunno, sticking the deflector dish back on the dorsal strut like that seems like a poor idea, because the deflector beam has to be able to spread out conically ahead of the ship to provide full protection, and it looks like a lot of the top portion of the beam would be blocked by the underside of the saucer. I mean, good grief, in that front view you can even see the lower sensor dome cutting off the top edge of the dish. That just doesn't make sense. Ideally it should be much further forward, say, right on the forward edge of the saucer like NX-01's deflector dish.

And I don't think it's credible to try to cram Connie-type components like the rear hangar onto the FJ-style design, and it somewhat underlines the implausibility of that design in the first place. If a ship were designed to have only a saucer and no secondary hull, then it stands to reason that the saucer would be designed differently in the first place and have its own distinct style of deflector dish and hangar bays, as we've seen in the NX class with its wide, flat deflector dish and drop bays, or in the Miranda class with its enlarged aft section and rectangular hangar doors (though what the Miranda uses for a navigational deflector is an enduring mystery).
The Reliant didn't even have a deflector dish. And the conical shaped beam would likely start out a lot more narrow than you're assuming anyway. Furthermore the placement of the nav deflector was originally Masao's idea which I thought looked much better than FJ's awkward concept. The hangar area I added might look familiar, but it's designed from scratch and doesn't share any parts with the original. Even the nacelle is actually larger in diameter although the rest of its components are the same.

Whatever. I just posted an idea. I don't need to defend it. I even suggested someone else's design as something more likely.
__________________
STAR TREK: 1964-1991, 2013-?
Warped9 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old August 15 2014, 06:07 PM   #40
J.T.B.
Commodore
 
J.T.B.'s Avatar
 
Re: Kirk's previous ship before Enterprise

^ It's definitely more "gainly" looking than the FJ hanging dish, I like it. I like the P-61 kitbash, too; I've praised it in an earlier thread.
J.T.B. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 15 2014, 07:18 PM   #41
Rick Sternbach
Fleet Captain
 
Re: Kirk's previous ship before Enterprise

The Old Mixer wrote: View Post
Nightowl1701 wrote: View Post
That's the Baton Rouge-class. And you can thank Rick Sternbach for that one.
Somehow I knew that it would be somebody who posts here...sorry, Rick....
Uh...it was a rush job. Yeah, that's the ticket.

Rick
__________________
Senior Illustrator Emeritus
Star Trek 1978-2001
Rick Sternbach is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 15 2014, 07:40 PM   #42
GNDN18
Lieutenant Commander
 
GNDN18's Avatar
 
Location: In third quadrant of vernal galaxy
Re: Kirk's previous ship before Enterprise

Rick Sternbach wrote: View Post
The Old Mixer wrote: View Post
Nightowl1701 wrote: View Post
That's the Baton Rouge-class. And you can thank Rick Sternbach for that one.
Somehow I knew that it would be somebody who posts here...sorry, Rick....
Uh...it was a rush job. Yeah, that's the ticket.

Rick
I loved the Baton Rouge when the Chronology came out. I thought the culmination of the design lineage made sense, with BR being the penultimate class before Constitution. It was very easy for me to imagine our heroes serving on ships like that before stardate 1312.4.

Thanks, Rick, for filling in the blanks for a young Trekker in 1980.
GNDN18 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 15 2014, 10:13 PM   #43
publiusr
Rear Admiral
 
Re: Kirk's previous ship before Enterprise

The Old Mixer wrote: View Post
Nightowl1701 wrote: View Post
That's the Baton Rouge-class. And you can thank Rick Sternbach for that one.
Somehow I knew that it would be somebody who posts here...sorry, Rick....
And the flat saucer also ties it in the the Kelvin type saucer rather nicely. I like the Baton Rouge myself. Nice model of in in 1/1000 some years ago (some differences though)
publiusr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 15 2014, 10:20 PM   #44
Christopher
Writer
 
Christopher's Avatar
 
Re: Kirk's previous ship before Enterprise

I'm not crazy about the aesthetics of the Baton Rouge's secondary hull -- it looks really bad from the front in that CG image posted above -- but I think with a little tweaking it could be a good design. And it seems to be popular in tie-ins; not only was it used in those Marvel and DC comics stories I mentioned, but it's referenced in Federation: The First 150 Years as one of the successors of the Daedalus class following its retirement in 2196 (the Einstein class, like the Kelvin, being the other successor).
__________________
Written Worlds -- Christopher L. Bennett's blog and webpage
Christopher is online now   Reply With Quote
Old August 15 2014, 10:30 PM   #45
publiusr
Rear Admiral
 
Re: Kirk's previous ship before Enterprise

Here is Rick's art:
http://www.trekbbs.com/showpost.php?...77&postcount=6

He has more in storage from his Chronology. I do hope he shares his superwarp ships. I prefer line drawings to CGI myself.
publiusr is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 05:39 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.