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Star Trek - Original Series The one that started it all...

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Old August 16 2014, 10:33 PM   #16
Melakon
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Re: Season 3

"Spectre of the Gun" is one of my favorites because it's full of visual style touches in a story dealing with the nature of reality. By the end, back on the ship, it's obvious they never got past the warning buoy at all until the Melkot extend welcome.

Much is made of Billy Claiborne (Chekov) surviving the OK Corral in actual history. But Ike Clanton (Kirk) also survived the original battle, by running away during the fighting.
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Old August 16 2014, 11:04 PM   #17
EnriqueH
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Re: Season 3

Spectre is good. The more I see it, the more I like it!

Just finished "Whom Gods Destroy".

Overall, I like this episode, but this bugged me: When confronted with two Kirks, couldn't Spock have asked him a million questions to verify his identity? "Captain, what was the name of the genetically engineered superman we found on the SS Botany Bay? What was the name of the woman who was to be my wife?"

Anyway, it was a treat to watch Keye Luke (from Kung Fu). That's one thing about Season 3: lots of cool guest stars, but none of them have much screen time.

Yvonne Craig. Ah, yes. What a hottie.
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Old August 17 2014, 12:46 AM   #18
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Re: Season 3

EnriqueH wrote: View Post
That Which Survives.

This to me is the low point. It's actually a pretty decent adventure story, in and of itself, but what makes it a low point isn't that. It's this...up until now, I haven't noticed any serious lapses in characterization, but I finally saw it---LOUD & CLEAR---in this episode.

Kirk and Spock spend the episode acting like they have their period---Kirk acts like a douche towards Sulu, ("If I wanted a Russian history lesson, I'd have brought Mr. Chekov!")

Worse of all was Mr. Spock, explaining that the occidental or whatever part of his head hit the corner of the captain's chair. Awkward attempt at humorous dialogue, but what really annoys me about the writing is the way Spock keeps riding the crew about minute details, "Not 93 seconds, 93.777 seconds, Lt." I'd never really seen Spock act like that much of a smartass. Yeah, he could be a bit of a smartass, but the dial was turned up way high in this episode.

...
Overall, it's an entertaining episode, but the characterizations of Kirk and especially Spock kinda ruin it.
Exactly. Well put!

And if it wasn't Spock acting like an ass then we switched over to Kirk being an ass. This is why this episode sits in my bottom 10 even though it probably shouldn't because it has good things in it.
A woman on the helm- finally and deliberately. Maybe a sign of things to come. Well no but at least we got to see it in one episode.
The 'mutiny' bit was great characterisation IMO. Let down mainly by Spock being a jerk in the rest of the episode. If I were Scott I would have punched Spock out.

Also why does Kirk beam down to the planet? Surely the planet was so strange it should have been the chief Science Officer and his minions not the Captain, CMO and Helmsman.

Also the Scott thing in the Jefferies like tube doesn't make sense.
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Old August 17 2014, 03:08 AM   #19
Lance
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Re: Season 3

^ I do, however, give them props for at least trying something other than Kirk & Spock together. At this late stage in the series that was unusual. Though I agree it might've been better to have swapped the roles and had Spock leading the party and Kirk left on the ship ala the situation seen in "Galileo 7" (I suspect that by this stage Shatner would've had something to say about that, mind you).
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Old August 17 2014, 03:15 AM   #20
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Re: Season 3

Lance wrote: View Post
^ I do, however, give them props for at least trying something other than Kirk & Spock together. At this late stage in the series that was unusual. Though I agree it might've been better to have swapped the roles and had Spock leading the party and Kirk left on the ship ala the situation seen in "Galileo 7" (I suspect that by this stage Shatner would've had something to say about that, mind you).
Yeah, that's a good point, Lance.

That was cool. Unfortunately, it was squandered when they wrote the dialogue for both characters, but the episode definitely had some cool stuff going for it.

n fact, ironically enough, they handled the whole episode rather well EXCEPT for the writing of the two leads. Everything else, as I recall, was good.
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Old August 17 2014, 06:50 AM   #21
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Re: Season 3

The Enterprise Incident, Spectre of the Gun and Paradise Syndrome are some great Trek episodes.

I'm not halfway through season 3 yeah but I think the poor reputation stems from episodes like Spock's Brain and And the Children Shall Lead being so painfully awful that they really stand out like sore thumbs in an otherwise excellent series. Meanwhile season 3's good episodes are simply taken for granted, with the expectation that they at least live up to the standard set by previous seasons.
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Old August 17 2014, 04:03 PM   #22
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Re: Season 3

Yeah, sometimes I think fans are guilty of witch-hunting Season 3 a bit.

I just finished watching "The Lights of Zetar" and "The Cloudminders".

I enjoyed the Zetar episode. I seem to remember Shatner mentioning Scotty abandoning his love of engines for Lt. Romaine as an example of characters abandoning previously established personality traits, but I found this to be a strong Scotty episode and didn't think there was anything wrong. Scotty's a human male, and was taken with Lt. Romaine.

The Cloudminders was an enjoyable episode (I can imagine how cool the visuals COULD'VE been). Spock talking about Pon Farr was a bit out of character. They did focus on the conversation midway, but I don't see what was so special about the girl to make Spock open up like that.
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Old August 18 2014, 04:17 PM   #23
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Re: Season 3

I just saw Way to Eden. I really don't get the hate for this episode. I thought it was good. I remember in Shatner's Movie Memories that Walter Koenig didn't like how Chekov was portrayed, but after having seen it again yesterday, I have no idea what the hell the problem was.

True, Chekov was young and the hippies were his age group, but as I remember, nothing in Chekov's character made me think he would agree with or want to join the hippies. One of Chekov's first lines in the series was, "I'm not that green!" Which says to me that he takes his Starfleet career seriously. I can see a "Way to Eden" story where Chekov, might be TEMPTED to join because he's persuaded, but I was just fine with his interpretation in Way to Eden.

And now I come to Requiem for Methuselah.

When I started production order, this was one of the episodes I was looking forward to because in all my years of being a fan, I didn't remember ever seeing it. It remained the one episode I didn't see because I went through a phase where I didn't want to see it because I wanted to still be able to say that there are "new Star Trek episodes for me to watch."

Well, when I saw it today, I thought I recognized Flint and his lair, making me think I may have seen it, after all, in my Kindergarten/First Grade years, but I didn't really remember anything so it was like seeing it for the first time.

HO-LEE SHIT.

I'm surprised this isn't mentioned as one of the better episodes.

I don't think I've ever seen Kirk lose it over a woman like that before. I wasn't sure I was liking it, but I thought it made him more human and vulnerable.

And the ending with Spock and McCoy just sealed the deal. What an ending.

I'm now a few episodes away from finishing the series, before I go onto the Animated Series and then the films, but this was one of the more rewarding viewings of an episode that I've had for the run through.

It's a damn shame they slashed Season 3's budget. The other thing I noticed about Season 3 was that Shatner has seemed a little more serious than usual, like something was weighing on Kirk (looming series cancellation?)

Anyway, I'm starting Savage Curtain, but I have to say that the Season 3 criticisms are not very valid.

There have been strong episodes, there were weaker ones, with only Spock's Brain being the total bomb. (The Season 3 equivalent of The Alternative Factor.)
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Old August 18 2014, 04:25 PM   #24
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Re: Season 3

I think Way To Eden gets brushed off as "the one with the space hippies" and laughed at for the scene where Spock gets hip and groovy with them in the Rec Room. Personally I'm divided on it in a pretty "take it or leave it" way. I Like that Spock seems to keep an open mind about Dr Sevrin's followers and their beliefs, which is very I.D.I.C philosophy, but I Dislike how Kirk is portrayed as a fuddy-duddy and a bigot basically from the moment he beams them aboard (he seems to stop just short of declaring them all beatniks and telling them to get a haircut and a real job, which are sentiments that I'm just not sure fit with Kirk's persona as established in TOS so far. Sure he's a military man, but he's not really a buttoned-down-do-as-you're-told type, I always read him as being rather more inclusive than that!).
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Old August 18 2014, 04:32 PM   #25
EnriqueH
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Re: Season 3

I was perfectly fine with the groove scene, and thought it made sense given Spock's history as a "half-breed" not accepted by humans or Vulcans that he would identify with them while simultaneously being aware they were misguided. I thought Spock showed a lot of widom.

By the way, Lance, I just added stuff to the post you responded to: Requiem for Methuselah.
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Old August 18 2014, 04:46 PM   #26
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Re: Season 3

^

EnriqueH wrote: View Post
It's a damn shame they slashed Season 3's budget. The other thing I noticed about Season 3 was that Shatner has seemed a little more serious than usual, like something was weighing on Kirk (looming series cancellation?)
I've gotta say, I think the actors all really pulled through in Season 3, more than they are sometimes given credit for. There were definitely times in Season 2 when I got the feeling, rightly or wrongly, that some of them were coasting along a little bit in their performances, I wouldn't say they were bad as such, but maybe more that they felt secure enough in their roles in Season 2. But I really felt that nearly everybody gives their all right near the end of the series. There isn't a single lagging performance among them. It's like the impending end of the show seen them all say "We're going to try and leave this show with our heads held high". At a time when they might be excused for sleepwalking a bit, they seemed to double their efforts. There are some truly exceptional main performances in the third season.
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Old August 18 2014, 05:57 PM   #27
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Re: Season 3

EnriqueH wrote: View Post
I'm about to start "Let That Be Your Last Battlefield" in my chronological viewing spree...
Overall, it's an entertaining episode, but the characterizations of Kirk and especially Spock kinda ruin it.
I agree with all of your points. I don't think Kirk was off as much as Spock, though. He was really not like himself. The over precision and lack of understanding of basic things that he understood previously and afterwards is very distracting. I really like the episode dispite the "Brain damaged Spock" Why did they write him that way? I've bitched about that many times.

I thought the Russian history lesson line was a good one.



Maurice wrote: View Post
Any time anyone says "point #" in reference to seconds is stupid, since you can't speak fast enough for that kind of precision to be possible, let alone meaningful.
Great point.


EnriqueH wrote: View Post
Yeah, sometimes I think fans are guilty of witch-hunting Season 3 a bit.

I just finished watching "The Lights of Zetar" and "The Cloudminders".

I enjoyed the Zetar episode. I seem to remember Shatner mentioning Scotty abandoning his love of engines for Lt. Romaine as an example of characters abandoning previously established personality traits, but I found this to be a strong Scotty episode and didn't think there was anything wrong. Scotty's a human male, and was taken with Lt. Romaine.

The Cloudminders was an enjoyable episode (I can imagine how cool the visuals COULD'VE been). Spock talking about Pon Farr was a bit out of character. They did focus on the conversation midway, but I don't see what was so special about the girl to make Spock open up like that.
I thought Scotty falling for Lt Romaine was fine and in character. A lonely older guy that spent his life with equipment suddenly realizing there is something else in life? Some people are never satisfied and think everyone is locked in forever to never change, and then they complain about lack of character development.

I think Mr. Spock might have wanted to Ponfarr Droxine...
I liked the way they had that scene toward the middle where Spock was contemplating. Really cool.

I hate the derision aimed at the 3rd season as a whole. There really is no good reason for it.



Lance wrote: View Post
I think Way To Eden gets brushed off as "the one with the space hippies" and laughed at for the scene where Spock gets hip and groovy with them in the Rec Room. Personally I'm divided on it in a pretty "take it or leave it" way. I Like that Spock seems to keep an open mind about Dr Sevrin's followers and their beliefs, which is very I.D.I.C philosophy, but I Dislike how Kirk is portrayed as a fuddy-duddy and a bigot basically from the moment he beams them aboard (he seems to stop just short of declaring them all beatniks and telling them to get a haircut and a real job, which are sentiments that I'm just not sure fit with Kirk's persona as established in TOS so far. Sure he's a military man, but he's not really a buttoned-down-do-as-you're-told type, I always read him as being rather more inclusive than that!).
I reach, but I think you may be forgeting just one thing. Kirk's got a bad temper, piss him off and he stays pissed. I mentioned it with Trouble with Tribbles and it's in Way to Eden. If Kirk met them in a casual setting or as visitors to his ship then he may have been more open, but after a hot pursuit of a stolen ship that ened up being destroyed by their own stupidity leaves him pissed and not interested in excuses. At least, that's my take on it.
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Old August 18 2014, 06:44 PM   #28
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Re: Season 3

"Spectre of the Gun" remains in my top ten favorite Trek episodes. I much prefer the first season over the second season and the second over the third (Gene Coon's injection of humor appealed to me as a kid but nowadays kind of annoys me). The third season is the most disjointed but having rewatched a number of episodes, there were a number of wonderful episodes throughout that year.
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Old August 18 2014, 07:56 PM   #29
EnriqueH
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Re: Season 3

pfontaine2 wrote: View Post
"Spectre of the Gun" remains in my top ten favorite Trek episodes. I much prefer the first season over the second season and the second over the third (Gene Coon's injection of humor appealed to me as a kid but nowadays kind of annoys me). The third season is the most disjointed but having rewatched a number of episodes, there were a number of wonderful episodes throughout that year.
I was thinking the same thing at the beginning of Season 2, with some of the episodes taking a sudden departure from tone in the last minute and everyone making silly comments and forced laughter/smiles.

---

So I just finished Turnabout Intruder.

The Savage Curtain was fun. Seeing Lincoln in space has unfairly portrayed this episode as silly, but when you watch it, it's great.

The actor who portrayed Lincoln did a great job. At first, I was apprehensive when I saw Abe Lincoln in space, but as the episode goes on and we get to spend a little time with Abe, I found myself being won over. I liked Abe. And I felt bad when he got a spear in the back. I also liked Surak a lot.

All Our Yesterdays. Here's another example of Season 3 witch-hunting. Spock eating meat. Going into the episode, I was thinking Spock was just eating meat to eat meat and that the writers had forgotten about the character's vegan status. But in watching the episode, it's quite clear that Spock isn't feeling, acting or behaving normally. There's a reason for it and it's because the time travel has altered his personality. It's NOT like That Which Survives, and Spock acts abnormally for no reason.

No, the only indication of violating characterizations I found in the entire series was in "That Which Survives" and slightly in Cloudminders when Spock is discussing Pon Farr.

Turnabout Intruder, similarly, gets witch hunted for being sexist. I think that's rather extreme. Why is it sexist? Did I miss something? Janice Lester is a MURDERER *and* a maniac, so of course she doesn't get to be a starship captain. HELLO!

Anyway, Season 3 had its fair share of great stories, character growth and humanism that we came to love in Seasons 1 and 2.

The only problem was the budget, since it's obvious they had to go claustrophobic keeping everything on minimal sets, or the Enterprise sets.

Am I wrong or was The Paradise Syndrome the only episode in Season 3 with location shooting?

What a show. My favorite show of all time. What if they found out about demographics before cancellation? What if they were given that Monday night at 8 timeslot?

If only, if only...

And on to The Animated Series...
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Old August 18 2014, 10:42 PM   #30
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Re: Season 3

Marsden wrote: View Post
I thought Scotty falling for Lt Romaine was fine and in character. A lonely older guy that spent his life with equipment suddenly realizing there is something else in life? Some people are never satisfied and think everyone is locked in forever to never change, and then they complain about lack of character development.
I'm with you on that. Scotty would hardly be the only human being ever who has been in this situation, heck I think we all know guys who for one reason or another have got to middle age and have never settled down, only to either have a pang of regret over it or to otherwise find somebody and be completely smitten of them. I never saw it as out-of-character, and Scotty is *exactly* the sort of guy who would be likely to fall head-over-heels in love with someone anyway.
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