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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > The Next Generation

The Next Generation All Good Things come to an end...but not here.

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Old August 15 2014, 04:01 AM   #1
Cadet49
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If TNG gets fx makeover, should they redesign the Stargazer?

If TNG gets an fx upgrade like TOS did a few years ago, would you like to see a redesign for the Stargazer, since it was just a mashup of a bunch of TOS movie models put together for budget reasons... With computer graphics of today, they could now design a Stargazer for the episode "The Battle" that looks more advanced than the Excelsior and Enterprise-A of the movie era, but still a product of the early 24th century designs, like the Ambassador class.

When you look at ships of the era where Picard became famous as an explorer, like the Ambassador-class, the Stargazer model looks completely small and antiquated for key deep space exploration missions. The ship was really small when compared to other 24th century ships, with old "wrath of Khan" era tech, if the bridge was any example, and it's movie era phaser cannons, didn't seem to have been replaced by the new bridge designs and phaser grids we see on the Enterprise-C, another vessel from Picard's Stargazer era... I get that the Stargazer was old, but it looked like it was dangerously lacking in any refits or retrogrades, still relying on 23rd century tech. I get that's just because of reusing movie era sets for budget, but It makes you wonder why, if Picard was becoming such a prominent, respected captain, Starfleet would leave him on a small scout ship, probably with a small crew, for 20+ years, instead of upgrading him to a more prominent vessel? I think it would be cool if the fx artists took the basic Stargazer design from the episode, but perhaps made it larger and added some design featured that made it look a but more advanced than Kirk's era, maybe incorporating some design elements from the Enterprise-C nacelles etc. ... Of course, haha ... That would mean editing in a new ship design in every shot of Picard's ready room model!

i like the basic design of the Stargazer model used on the show ... I'd just like to see some design detail enhancements added if they ever edit the fx on the series, since the computer graphics allow for more budget effective designs today...

Last edited by Cadet49; August 15 2014 at 04:11 AM.
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Old August 15 2014, 04:04 AM   #2
Hober Mallow
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Re: If TNG gets fx makeover, should they redesign the Stargazer?

The discussion is moot as TNG has already been remastered in HD in TNG and did not get an FX upgrade, other than revealing the exquisite ILM filmed models in HD (and where FX shots had to be recreated.) The problem with TOS was that the original FX film elements no longer existed, but for TNG they did. So, no, it's never gonna happen, because it isn't necessary.

Anyway, why would such great model shots need an "upgrade?" The level of CGI we got in TOS's enhanced shots would be a downgrade.
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Old August 15 2014, 04:27 AM   #3
Cadet49
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Re: If TNG gets fx makeover, should they redesign the Stargazer?

Hober Mallow wrote: View Post
The discussion is moot as TNG has already been remastered in HD in TNG and did not get an FX upgrade, other than revealing the exquisite ILM filmed models in HD (and where FX shots had to be recreated.) The problem with TOS was that the original FX film elements no longer existed, but for TNG they did. So, no, it's never gonna happen, because it isn't necessary.

Anyway, why would such great model shots need an "upgrade?" The level of CGI we got in TOS's enhanced shots would be a downgrade.
Because some of the FX of the 80s and 90s show are looking very dated on modern HD TVs, and the model designs in the 80s and 90s were limited by budget restrictions ... TNG relied on TOS movie era models - Excelsiors, Oberths, Mirandas, Klingon birds of prey, the motion picture Klingon battle cruiser, even the Regula I space station model, etc - for other ships to keep budget costs down. They did eventually design some new futuristic ship designs, like the Ambassador and Nebula-classes, the Romulan warbirds, the Starfleet ships in First Contact ... but seeing the majority of episodes featuring outdated TOS movie era ships still in operation some 80+ years later doesn't make much sense -( that would be like the US navy in the 1990s using mainly WWI warships in frontline operations - they would be totally out of date by that time!). With computer fx, if they ever do make a remastered fx version of TNG, they could edit in new designs for ships like the USS Hood, the Brittain, the Stargazer, etc... To give us ships that are clearly before the Enterprise-D era, but clearly built after Kirk's time... the way the show ships currently look, it looks like neither Starfleet nor the Klingons did much starship redesign for decades, except for the Ambassador and Nebula classes...! ;-)

Last edited by Cadet49; August 15 2014 at 04:37 AM.
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Old August 15 2014, 04:35 AM   #4
BillJ
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Re: If TNG gets fx makeover, should they redesign the Stargazer?

Just no. Leave it alone.
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Old August 15 2014, 04:37 AM   #5
Hober Mallow
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Re: If TNG gets fx makeover, should they redesign the Stargazer?

Dated? Filmed model shots have even higher resolution than HD TV's are capable of showing. What's dated about them?

In any case, the remastering is almost finished. They're not gonna do it again.
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Old August 15 2014, 04:42 AM   #6
Cadet49
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Re: If TNG gets fx makeover, should they redesign the Stargazer?

Hober Mallow wrote: View Post
Dated? Filmed model shots have even higher resolution than HD TV's are capable of showing. CGI would likely be no better than 1080. Seems strange want less resolution.

In any case, the remastering is almost finished. They're not gonna do it again.
Yeah ... The effects are not as crisp as modern graphics...

And they might do further remastering someday ...
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Old August 15 2014, 04:44 AM   #7
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Re: If TNG gets fx makeover, should they redesign the Stargazer?

Cadet49 wrote: View Post

Yeah ... The effects are not as crisp as modern graphics...
They look a heck of a lot better than most modern graphics. I'll take the Stargazer model over a CGI version any day of the week.
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Old August 15 2014, 04:48 AM   #8
Cadet49
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Re: If TNG gets fx makeover, should they redesign the Stargazer?

The Cheyenne starship model design would be a better look for the Stargazer ... Still has 4 nacelles, but more modern look than the Kirk era design ... Yet could look like it was from an era between TOS and TNG... I'd like to see that design like that perhaps edited into "The Battle"
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Old August 15 2014, 04:48 AM   #9
Hober Mallow
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Re: If TNG gets fx makeover, should they redesign the Stargazer?

Cadet49 wrote: View Post
Yeah ... The effects are not as crisp as modern graphics...
Nonsense. As I said, the original filmed FX elements have even higher resolution than 1080, which is all you'd likely get with new CGI shots. You're entitled to your opinion on the aesthetics of the original TNG shots, but the above assertion is just flat-out false. The resolution of TOS's new CGI shots is much less than TNG's filmed model shots. That's just fact.
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Old August 15 2014, 04:52 AM   #10
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Re: If TNG gets fx makeover, should they redesign the Stargazer?

Cadet49 wrote: View Post
The Cheyenne starship model design would be a better look for the Stargazer ... Still has 4 nacelles, but more modern look than the Kirk era design ... Yet could look like it was from an era between TOS and TNG... I'd like to see that design like that perhaps edited into "The Battle"
Go nuts. No one is keeping you from creating your own version of the episodes.
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Old August 15 2014, 04:53 AM   #11
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Re: If TNG gets fx makeover, should they redesign the Stargazer?

Hober Mallow wrote: View Post
Cadet49 wrote: View Post
Yeah ... The effects are not as crisp as modern graphics...
the above assertion is just flat-out false. The resolution of TOS's new CGI shots is much less than TNG's filmed model shots. That's just fact.
I dunno, "crisp" doesn't seem to have any relation to resolution; there is a softness to film that digital doesn't have. YMMV whether that's a good thing or not (hell, it depends on the film itself sometimes).

To answer the OP question, sure, if CBS ever has nothing else they're ever producing ever again except Star Trek and/or various remasters of such...other than that we got what we're getting, at least for the next 25 years. As already pointed out (possibly?), the ONLY reason that TOS got the CGI treatment is that the original elements no longer existed in anything other than the final print, as they're presented on the Blu-ray, and I'm pretty sure the TOS-R project started before Blu-ray was even a thing.
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Old August 15 2014, 04:53 AM   #12
Cadet49
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Re: If TNG gets fx makeover, should they redesign the Stargazer?

Hober Mallow wrote: View Post
Cadet49 wrote: View Post
Yeah ... The effects are not as crisp as modern graphics...
Nonsense. As I said, the original filmed FX elements have even higher resolution than 1080, which is all you'd likely get with new CGI shots. You're entitled to your opinion on the aesthetics of the original TNG shots, but the above assertion is just flat-out false. The resolution of TOS's new CGI shots is much less than TNG's filmed model shots. That's just fact.
Yeah, that's me going off topic a bit anyways - I was focussing on the idea of revamping the looks of some of the TOS movie era vessels to more reflect the 24th century era, as it seems unrealistic that Starfleet (and the Klingons) would still be relying so heavily on 75 year old starship designs... I was just speculating if it would be cool if someday they edited in new ship designs for the Stargazer, so it didn't look quite so ancient and small ... Picard's old command is supposed to be a famous, celebrated vessel, yet as it currently appears, it would have been under armed, small, and vastly outdated compared to other vessels of the 2340s and 2350s... Look at the technology of the Ambassador class, etc... or did Starfleet rely on starship designs from the 2280s well into the 24th Century, possibly all the way to 2350?

Last edited by Cadet49; August 15 2014 at 05:10 AM.
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Old August 15 2014, 05:07 AM   #13
Dr. Sevrin
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Re: If TNG gets fx makeover, should they redesign the Stargazer?

It took about 40 years for them to release TOS with CGI effects. Maybe they'll do that for TNG in another 40.
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Old August 15 2014, 05:12 AM   #14
Cadet49
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Re: If TNG gets fx makeover, should they redesign the Stargazer?

Melakon wrote: View Post
It took about 40 years for them to release TOS with CGI effects. Maybe they'll do that for TNG in another 40.
Yeah - that was my thinking...
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Old August 15 2014, 07:51 AM   #15
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Re: If TNG gets fx makeover, should they redesign the Stargazer?

Cadet49 wrote: View Post
Hober Mallow wrote: View Post
Cadet49 wrote: View Post
Yeah ... The effects are not as crisp as modern graphics...
Nonsense. As I said, the original filmed FX elements have even higher resolution than 1080, which is all you'd likely get with new CGI shots. You're entitled to your opinion on the aesthetics of the original TNG shots, but the above assertion is just flat-out false. The resolution of TOS's new CGI shots is much less than TNG's filmed model shots. That's just fact.
Yeah, that's me going off topic a bit anyways - I was focussing on the idea of revamping the looks of some of the TOS movie era vessels to more reflect the 24th century era, as it seems unrealistic that Starfleet (and the Klingons) would still be relying so heavily on 75 year old starship designs... I was just speculating if it would be cool if someday they edited in new ship designs for the Stargazer, so it didn't look quite so ancient and small ... Picard's old command is supposed to be a famous, celebrated vessel, yet as it currently appears, it would have been under armed, small, and vastly outdated compared to other vessels of the 2340s and 2350s... Look at the technology of the Ambassador class, etc... or did Starfleet rely on starship designs from the 2280s well into the 24th Century, possibly all the way to 2350?
That Picard was pulling off stuff with such an old ship might be exactly why he and it are famous.
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