RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 140,239
Posts: 5,438,721
Members: 24,958
Currently online: 495
Newest member: greatmovies

TrekToday headlines

Cumberbatch In Wax
By: T'Bonz on Oct 24

Trek Screenwriter Washington D.C. Appearance
By: T'Bonz on Oct 23

Two Official Starships Collection Ships
By: T'Bonz on Oct 22

Pine In New Skit
By: T'Bonz on Oct 21

Stewart In Holiday Film
By: T'Bonz on Oct 21

The Red Shirt Diaries #8
By: T'Bonz on Oct 20

IDW Publishing January Comics
By: T'Bonz on Oct 20

Retro Review: Chrysalis
By: Michelle on Oct 18

The Next Generation Season Seven Blu-ray Details
By: T'Bonz on Oct 17

CBS Launches Streaming Service
By: T'Bonz on Oct 17


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > The Next Generation

The Next Generation All Good Things come to an end...but not here.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old August 2 2014, 09:33 PM   #1
Elvira
Vice Admiral
 
Elvira's Avatar
 
Location: t'girl
There Were Two Stargazers

The Constellation Class starship USS Stargazer in the episode The Battle had the hull number of NCC-2893. The display model in Picard's was a Constellation Class starship with the hull number of NCC-7100.

Are these two different starships, both named Stargazer?

In the episode The Battle, Picard said of the "Battle of Maxia"

We were traveling at warp two through the Maxia Zeta star system when this unidentified starship suddenly appeared and fired on us, point-blank range ... I was remembering being at the helm of the Stargazer. A maneuver was being made, we were hit. I did what any good helmsman would have done.

We were finished. On fire. We had to abandon ship. We limped through space in shuttlecraft for weeks before we were picked up.


At this point in time the Stargazer NCC-2893 is gone, Picard doesn't see it again for several years, after he is made Captain of the Enterprise Dee. Picard was commanding officer of the Stargazer NCC-2893 for a very brief period of time.

However, Picard tells occasional stories of his time as Captain of the Stargazer. Running from Cardassian starships, studying theda band emissions

In Relics, Picard told Scotty; The first ship I ever served aboard as Captain was called the Stargazer. It was an overworked, underpowered vessel, always on the verge of flying apart at the seams. In every measurable sense, my Enterprise is far superior. But there are times when I would give almost anything to command the Stargazer again.

I think what happen was after the first Stargazer was "lost" Starfleet named a second ship Stargazer, this is the ship that is depicted by the model in Picard's ready room, the one with the hull number of NCC-7100. Picard as at some point made captain of this vessel. This (and not the first ship) is "Picard's Stargazer," the one he tells stories about and remembers fondly.

Not being as noteworthy a vessel as the Enterprise, Starfleet didn't simply place a "A" after the name (Stargazer-A) and give it the same hull number.

The second Stargazer might have still been in existence when Picard assumed command of the Enterprise Dee.

In addition to the different hull number, it's been point out that there are slight surface and design differences (which I don't see) between the model in Picard's ready room, and the ship seen in The Battle.

And there's the hull color.

Does it make sense that there were two Stargazers?

Elvira is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 3 2014, 12:14 AM   #2
tharpdevenport
Admiral
 
tharpdevenport's Avatar
 
Location: Click here for super karate monkey death MOD porn!
View tharpdevenport's Twitter Profile
Re: There Were Two Stargazers

It's just a case of the TNG writers not remembering (or even knowing) there was actually a ship with that name before.


As I recall, that's just like D.S.9.; I recall there beign a Defiant in the TOS series as well, with different call mumbers.
__________________
Mr. Signature
Number 2 "Are you going to run?"
Number 6 "Like blazes! The first chance I get."
-Smile! God Loves You! Too bad he doesn't exist, oh and everyone else thinks you're an asshole.
tharpdevenport is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 3 2014, 12:32 AM   #3
Chemahkuu
Vice Admiral
 
Chemahkuu's Avatar
 
Location: United Kingdom
Send a message via Yahoo to Chemahkuu
Re: There Were Two Stargazers

There are about 6 Lexingtons as well, all different hull numbers.

As for the Stargazer, chalk it up to production problems like the Enterprise-C.

They needed quick cheap models for the background, when it came time to actually have those ships in the series, they realised they needed something different for the filmable model.

The Buried Age covers Picards loss of the 2893 Stargazer to the Enterprise D perfectly.
__________________
"But there's no sense crying over every mistake. You just keep on trying till you run out of cake."
Chemahkuu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 3 2014, 12:54 AM   #4
BillJ
Admiral
 
BillJ's Avatar
 
Location: Covington, Ky.
View BillJ's Twitter Profile
Re: There Were Two Stargazers

Chemahkuu wrote: View Post

The Buried Age covers Picards loss of the 2893 Stargazer to the Enterprise D perfectly.
Whose to say NCC-7100 is even suppose to be the Stargazer? In universe, it may simply be the first starship Picard served aboard and he had a fondness for it.
__________________
"If I hadn't tried, the cost would have been my soul." - Admiral James T. Kirk, Star Trek III: The Search for Spock
BillJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 3 2014, 01:13 AM   #5
George Steinbrenner
Fleet Admiral
 
George Steinbrenner's Avatar
 
Location: Mr. Laser Beam is in the visitor's bullpen
View George Steinbrenner's Twitter Profile
Re: There Were Two Stargazers

The model marked NCC-7100 had no name. Take that however you wish.
__________________
It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shakes, the shakes become a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
George Steinbrenner is online now   Reply With Quote
Old August 3 2014, 02:51 AM   #6
Crypto
Caped Trek Mod
 
Crypto's Avatar
 
Location: Transporter buffer
Re: There Were Two Stargazers

Since this is solely a TNG topic, I'll send it over to the TNG forum.
__________________
Woof.
Misfit Toy
Crypto is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 3 2014, 04:16 AM   #7
Avro Arrow
Fleet Captain
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
Re: There Were Two Stargazers

Picard supposedly served on 2893 for a long time, and we know from "The Battle" that 2893 was only lost nine years before that episode. I don't think we can say that Picard only commanded the 2893 for a very brief time... wasn't it supposed to be, like, 20 plus years?

I don't know for sure that there weren't two Stargazers, but I would assume the one Picard remembers fondly is in fact 2893.
__________________
You preach about love, teach about faith / But all your beliefs are still rooted in hate
- Billy Talent, "Viking Death March"
Avro Arrow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 3 2014, 04:40 AM   #8
trekshark
Lieutenant
 
Location: USA
Re: There Were Two Stargazers

tharpdevenport wrote: View Post
It's just a case of the TNG writers not remembering (or even knowing) there was actually a ship with that name before.


As I recall, that's just like D.S.9.; I recall there beign a Defiant in the TOS series as well, with different call mumbers.
I don't see where the DS9 Defiant having the same name as a ship lost 100 years prior is an issue

as for the stargazer, memory alpha lists picard as taking command in 2333, so that would give plenty of time for all his stories to have happened prior to its abandonment
trekshark is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 3 2014, 09:48 AM   #9
F. King Daniel
Admiral
 
F. King Daniel's Avatar
 
Location: King Daniel Into Darkness
Re: There Were Two Stargazers

T'Girl wrote: View Post
The Constellation Class starship USS Stargazer in the episode The Battle had the hull number of NCC-2893. The display model in Picard's was a Constellation Class starship with the hull number of NCC-7100.

Are these two different starships, both named Stargazer?
Nope. The model on Picard's desk was kitbashed from two AMT Enterprise models and some other parts, hence the number 7100. The Stargazer was originally scripted to be a Constitution-class ship (hence the model swapping to a silver AMT Enterprise for the episode), but they decided to build a new ship model instead. "Constellation" was dubbed over "Constitution" and a new model was made, based on the yellow kitbash, but with slightly different proportions and a lower number more suitable for the TOS movie sets which were used.

They're supposed to be the same ship, just like the USS Yamato is the same, despite having the numbers 1305-E, 71807 and 61807 in it's two appearances.
__________________
Star Trek Imponderables, fun mashups of Trek's biggest continuity errors! Ep1, Ep2 and Ep3
F. King Daniel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 3 2014, 09:57 AM   #10
Ithekro
Fleet Captain
 
Ithekro's Avatar
 
Location: Republic of California
Re: There Were Two Stargazers

There have been ship models on desks in commanding officer's offices that they did not command or even serve on. Sisko has a nearly 200 year old starship design model for one thing.
Ithekro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 3 2014, 10:26 AM   #11
WalkerBait
Trekker4747
 
WalkerBait's Avatar
 
Location: Kansas City
Re: There Were Two Stargazers

As I recall, the Battle at Maxia where the Stargazer was lost was a very different battle from the battle where the captain was lost and Picard took command. The latter being where he was given command of the ship and he served as commander for nearly 20 years.
__________________
Just because it's futuristic doesn't mean it's practical.
WalkerBait is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 3 2014, 02:27 PM   #12
Chemahkuu
Vice Admiral
 
Chemahkuu's Avatar
 
Location: United Kingdom
Send a message via Yahoo to Chemahkuu
Re: There Were Two Stargazers

BillJ wrote: View Post
Whose to say NCC-7100 is even suppose to be the Stargazer? In universe, it may simply be the first starship Picard served aboard and he had a fondness for it.
Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
The model marked NCC-7100 had no name. Take that however you wish.
Good point, it's a generic ship with no name to begin with.
__________________
"But there's no sense crying over every mistake. You just keep on trying till you run out of cake."
Chemahkuu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 3 2014, 02:56 PM   #13
The Dead Mixer
Vice Admiral
 
The Dead Mixer's Avatar
 
Location: Connecticut
Re: There Were Two Stargazers

"THERE...IS...ONE...STARGAZER!!!!!!!"
__________________
The Old Mixer, celebrating 50 years under our Fab Overlords.
The Dead Mixer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 3 2014, 05:25 PM   #14
Timo
Admiral
 
Re: There Were Two Stargazers

As I recall, the Battle at Maxia where the Stargazer was lost was a very different battle from the battle where the captain was lost and Picard took command. The latter being where he was given command of the ship and he served as commander for nearly 20 years.
That's more than we were actually told. All that we learned from the episodes is that Picard once took command of the bridge of the Stargazer when her captain was incapacitated (TNG "Tapestry"). We are never told that this would have resulted in Picard being placed in command of that ship. It's just one incident in a long string of heroics that made Starfleet impressed with Picard and ultimately resulted in his promotion to Captain rank and him being given captaincy of a vessel (which, perhaps not completely incidentally, happened to be the Stargazer). We don't know when any of this happened, and we have no reason to think any of it happened in an unrealistic or inconsistent manner.

IMHO, the writers maintained excellent consistency with the Stargazer backstory, never contradicting themselves. Anything that happened could plausibly have happened before the Battle of Maxia; all the people involved could have been involved. Even what little we know about the ranks of the people involved makes sense.

And no, there doesn't appear to be a second ship named Stargazer anywhere in Trek lore, either preceding or succeeding Picard's old ship.

Timo Saloniemi
Timo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 3 2014, 08:34 PM   #15
Elvira
Vice Admiral
 
Elvira's Avatar
 
Location: t'girl
Re: There Were Two Stargazers

The thing that stand out to me Timo is Picard twice stated in The Battle that just prior to Battle of Maxia, he was the helmsman. Which implies that he wasn't the ship's captain at the time.

__________________
.
no mere mortal can resist the evil of the thriller
Elvira is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 03:55 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.