RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 139,686
Posts: 5,430,555
Members: 24,830
Currently online: 443
Newest member: Old Man 51


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > The Next Generation

The Next Generation All Good Things come to an end...but not here.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old July 31 2014, 07:48 PM   #61
Kobayshi Maru
Commander
 
Kobayshi Maru's Avatar
 
Re: Favourite Much-Maligned TNG Episodes

jimbotron wrote: View Post
From Memory Alpha:
In this episode, the entire humanoid population of the planet is portrayed by African-American performers. In the teleplay, however, only Lutan's guards were specifically written as being African.
The director was fired over this, and Les Landau directed the rest of the episode uncredited.

Joel_Kirk wrote: View Post
And, according to you, they - the Ligonians - were unreasonable. So, being reasonable would mean they are not stereotypes? (They are a proud and strong race like many other alien races in Star Trek, just because they didn't kowtow to Picard and his crew doesn't make them bad).
The unreasonable part referred to abducting a woman, and refusing to hand over precious medicine (or whatever it was) unless they let them keep her. Stereotype referred to the clothing and drum-beating, etc, things you would see in movies from the 1940s. Not mutually inclusive. They were written as unreasonable and portrayed as stereotypes.
I agree, I half expected one of the crew to say: "The natives are getting restless."

That would have completed the cliché.
Kobayshi Maru is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 31 2014, 08:01 PM   #62
Joel_Kirk
Commodore
 
Joel_Kirk's Avatar
 
Location: Chillin' on Ligon II...
Re: Favourite Much-Maligned TNG Episodes

Kobayshi Maru wrote: View Post
jimbotron wrote: View Post
From Memory Alpha:
In this episode, the entire humanoid population of the planet is portrayed by African-American performers. In the teleplay, however, only Lutan's guards were specifically written as being African.
The director was fired over this, and Les Landau directed the rest of the episode uncredited.

Joel_Kirk wrote: View Post
And, according to you, they - the Ligonians - were unreasonable. So, being reasonable would mean they are not stereotypes? (They are a proud and strong race like many other alien races in Star Trek, just because they didn't kowtow to Picard and his crew doesn't make them bad).
The unreasonable part referred to abducting a woman, and refusing to hand over precious medicine (or whatever it was) unless they let them keep her. Stereotype referred to the clothing and drum-beating, etc, things you would see in movies from the 1940s. Not mutually inclusive. They were written as unreasonable and portrayed as stereotypes.
I agree, I half expected one of the crew to say: "The natives are getting restless."

That would have completed the cliché.
Or the crew - save for Geordi - talking about their white superiority.

That would have been interesting. However, that probably would have also been cliched since it would be discussing race just because it involves black people.

We know that there already is racism among humans within the Star Trek universe - it damn well shows in fandom, and we only need to see this thread to know that! - so it would have been interesting to see the attitudes in play. For example, has Picard (or any of the white members of the main crew) ever came in contact with a predominant alien race that was darker than they?
__________________

Last edited by Joel_Kirk; July 31 2014 at 08:18 PM.
Joel_Kirk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 31 2014, 08:20 PM   #63
Dennis
Commodore
 
Dennis's Avatar
 
Re: Favourite Much-Maligned TNG Episodes

BigJake wrote: View Post
I was put in mind of this subject by watching a video recap of first-season TNG the other day during which I realized that -- for as much opprobrium as is hurled at it today -- I actually quite liked a lot of it at the time and still do today. So I thought I'd put it out there; which maligned episodes of TNG do you enjoy?

My leading picks? The Naked Now and Code of Honor.

Yes, The Naked Now was an odd choice of story for the second episode, and a retread of a TOS plot... but everyone still sold it pretty well and it gave us the deathless "programmed in multiple techniques of pleasuring" side of Data, which was a win with me then and still is today.

Code of Honor was a mixture of cheesy TOS elements, including a fight-to-the-death ritual, Captainly trickery and goofy alien primitives. But it's still good cheese! Darned if I don't have any less fun watching this than, say, The Gamesters of Triskelion. Yes, the goofy aliens are given an unfortunate overlay of racism by the odd choice of casting all the Ligonians as African -- but hey, it's a step up from blonde surfers in orange-face and we've seen this done before with all-Caucasian planets too. More importantly the actors playing the Ligonians make a heck of a lot of hay out of, to put it politely, limited parts.

Overall I liked the unpredictability of Season One TNG. The charge often levelled at it that it was trying to be TOS is true, but in retrospect not such a terrible thing; it also derived some charm and quality from that, and furnished a boatload of accidental magic that most shows never attain in multiple seasons. It was messy and nobody really knew what was going on, but it still entertained, in some ways because of that messiness.

In fact, looking down a list of episodes from that season, I can more easily pick out the few that I didn't like from the many I did. The Last Outpost; Haven (just a bit dull); Angel One (way too Amazon Women on the Moon); Symbiosis (a touch predictable). The rest... still hold up.

Yes? No? Got picks of your own? (They don't have to be season one.) Fire away.
Well, BigJake's posted something about Star Trek that I more or less agree with right down the line. I think I'm going offline for the rest of the afternoon to avoid any further shocks to my decrepit system.
__________________
"I don’t think there is any place in the world where [the Ford Mustang] is not known. To build it right here in Michigan is something to be proud of." - UAW Vice President Jimmy Settles

Dennis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 31 2014, 08:34 PM   #64
BillJ
Admiral
 
BillJ's Avatar
 
Location: Covington, Ky.
View BillJ's Twitter Profile
Re: Favourite Much-Maligned TNG Episodes

Dennis wrote: View Post
Well, BigJake's posted something about Star Trek that I more or less agree with right down the line.
Isn't that one of the signs that the apocalypse is coming?
__________________
"I tell you what you all need, you need to take a thirteenth step, down off your high horse." - Hank Hill, King of the Hill
BillJ is online now   Reply With Quote
Old August 1 2014, 03:56 AM   #65
Harvey
Admiral
 
Harvey's Avatar
 
Re: Favourite Much-Maligned TNG Episodes

Joel_Kirk wrote: View Post
The writers/producers should have definitely expanded on Ligon II in later seasons. Too, the fact that Les Landau continued with the direction, with the same cast, shows that there was probably something else going on behind-the-scenes that wasn't made public.
A weekly network television series simply doesn't have the flexibility to make those kinds of changes once an episode is in the midst of production like that.

I do wonder why an episode that was hated by so many involved in making it was slotted as the third show of the season, though. Perhaps, similar to the original series, there simply wasn't any other episode ready for broadcast.
__________________
"This begs explanation." - de Forest Research on Star Trek

My blog: Star Trek Fact Check.
Harvey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 2 2014, 04:52 AM   #66
BigJake
Rear Admiral
 
BigJake's Avatar
 
Location: No matter where you go, there you are.
Re: Favourite Much-Maligned TNG Episodes

Dennis wrote: View Post
Well, BigJake's posted something about Star Trek that I more or less agree with right down the line. I think I'm going offline for the rest of the afternoon to avoid any further shocks to my decrepit system.
BillJ wrote: View Post
Isn't that one of the signs that the apocalypse is coming?


Don't worry, gents.

I'm frightened too.
__________________
It's got electrolytes!
"I wanna read more" - Dennis "I . . . agree with everything you said" - SPCTRE "I blame Cracked" - J. Allen "Take me off" - The Stig

Last edited by BigJake; August 2 2014 at 05:13 AM.
BigJake is online now   Reply With Quote
Old August 2 2014, 09:45 AM   #67
King Daniel Into Darkness
Admiral
 
King Daniel Into Darkness's Avatar
 
Location: England again
Re: Favourite Much-Maligned TNG Episodes

Probably "Masks". Or the nuttiness of "Genesis", featuring Spider Barclay and Fish Troi.
__________________
Star Trek Imponderables, fun mashups of Trek's biggest continuity errors! Ep1, Ep2 and Ep3
King Daniel Into Darkness is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 3 2014, 12:20 AM   #68
SJSharksfan39
Admiral
 
SJSharksfan39's Avatar
 
Location: San Francisco Bay Area, CA
View SJSharksfan39's Twitter Profile
Re: Favourite Much-Maligned TNG Episodes

AgentCoop wrote: View Post
I also love both "The Royale" and "Masks". Another favorite of mine that I think is less than popular is "Thine Own Self". I generally enjoy any Data-centric episode, but that one is offbeat enough to stand out.
I haven't seen Thine Own Self in a long long time, but I remember really liking it. Actually, there's a lot in Season 7 I really like, basically because before I came here, I didn't know Season 7 wasn't all that liked.
__________________
Twitter
SJSharksfan39 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 01:40 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.