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The Next Generation All Good Things come to an end...but not here.

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Old July 31 2014, 07:48 PM   #61
Kobayshi Maru
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Re: Favourite Much-Maligned TNG Episodes

jimbotron wrote: View Post
From Memory Alpha:
In this episode, the entire humanoid population of the planet is portrayed by African-American performers. In the teleplay, however, only Lutan's guards were specifically written as being African.
The director was fired over this, and Les Landau directed the rest of the episode uncredited.

Joel_Kirk wrote: View Post
And, according to you, they - the Ligonians - were unreasonable. So, being reasonable would mean they are not stereotypes? (They are a proud and strong race like many other alien races in Star Trek, just because they didn't kowtow to Picard and his crew doesn't make them bad).
The unreasonable part referred to abducting a woman, and refusing to hand over precious medicine (or whatever it was) unless they let them keep her. Stereotype referred to the clothing and drum-beating, etc, things you would see in movies from the 1940s. Not mutually inclusive. They were written as unreasonable and portrayed as stereotypes.
I agree, I half expected one of the crew to say: "The natives are getting restless."

That would have completed the cliché.
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Old July 31 2014, 08:01 PM   #62
Joel_Kirk
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Re: Favourite Much-Maligned TNG Episodes

Kobayshi Maru wrote: View Post
jimbotron wrote: View Post
From Memory Alpha:
In this episode, the entire humanoid population of the planet is portrayed by African-American performers. In the teleplay, however, only Lutan's guards were specifically written as being African.
The director was fired over this, and Les Landau directed the rest of the episode uncredited.

Joel_Kirk wrote: View Post
And, according to you, they - the Ligonians - were unreasonable. So, being reasonable would mean they are not stereotypes? (They are a proud and strong race like many other alien races in Star Trek, just because they didn't kowtow to Picard and his crew doesn't make them bad).
The unreasonable part referred to abducting a woman, and refusing to hand over precious medicine (or whatever it was) unless they let them keep her. Stereotype referred to the clothing and drum-beating, etc, things you would see in movies from the 1940s. Not mutually inclusive. They were written as unreasonable and portrayed as stereotypes.
I agree, I half expected one of the crew to say: "The natives are getting restless."

That would have completed the cliché.
Or the crew - save for Geordi - talking about their white superiority.

That would have been interesting. However, that probably would have also been cliched since it would be discussing race just because it involves black people.

We know that there already is racism among humans within the Star Trek universe - it damn well shows in fandom, and we only need to see this thread to know that! - so it would have been interesting to see the attitudes in play. For example, has Picard (or any of the white members of the main crew) ever came in contact with a predominant alien race that was darker than they?
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Old July 31 2014, 08:20 PM   #63
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Re: Favourite Much-Maligned TNG Episodes

BigJake wrote: View Post
I was put in mind of this subject by watching a video recap of first-season TNG the other day during which I realized that -- for as much opprobrium as is hurled at it today -- I actually quite liked a lot of it at the time and still do today. So I thought I'd put it out there; which maligned episodes of TNG do you enjoy?

My leading picks? The Naked Now and Code of Honor.

Yes, The Naked Now was an odd choice of story for the second episode, and a retread of a TOS plot... but everyone still sold it pretty well and it gave us the deathless "programmed in multiple techniques of pleasuring" side of Data, which was a win with me then and still is today.

Code of Honor was a mixture of cheesy TOS elements, including a fight-to-the-death ritual, Captainly trickery and goofy alien primitives. But it's still good cheese! Darned if I don't have any less fun watching this than, say, The Gamesters of Triskelion. Yes, the goofy aliens are given an unfortunate overlay of racism by the odd choice of casting all the Ligonians as African -- but hey, it's a step up from blonde surfers in orange-face and we've seen this done before with all-Caucasian planets too. More importantly the actors playing the Ligonians make a heck of a lot of hay out of, to put it politely, limited parts.

Overall I liked the unpredictability of Season One TNG. The charge often levelled at it that it was trying to be TOS is true, but in retrospect not such a terrible thing; it also derived some charm and quality from that, and furnished a boatload of accidental magic that most shows never attain in multiple seasons. It was messy and nobody really knew what was going on, but it still entertained, in some ways because of that messiness.

In fact, looking down a list of episodes from that season, I can more easily pick out the few that I didn't like from the many I did. The Last Outpost; Haven (just a bit dull); Angel One (way too Amazon Women on the Moon); Symbiosis (a touch predictable). The rest... still hold up.

Yes? No? Got picks of your own? (They don't have to be season one.) Fire away.
Well, BigJake's posted something about Star Trek that I more or less agree with right down the line. I think I'm going offline for the rest of the afternoon to avoid any further shocks to my decrepit system.
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Old July 31 2014, 08:34 PM   #64
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Re: Favourite Much-Maligned TNG Episodes

Dennis wrote: View Post
Well, BigJake's posted something about Star Trek that I more or less agree with right down the line.
Isn't that one of the signs that the apocalypse is coming?
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Old August 1 2014, 03:56 AM   #65
Harvey
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Re: Favourite Much-Maligned TNG Episodes

Joel_Kirk wrote: View Post
The writers/producers should have definitely expanded on Ligon II in later seasons. Too, the fact that Les Landau continued with the direction, with the same cast, shows that there was probably something else going on behind-the-scenes that wasn't made public.
A weekly network television series simply doesn't have the flexibility to make those kinds of changes once an episode is in the midst of production like that.

I do wonder why an episode that was hated by so many involved in making it was slotted as the third show of the season, though. Perhaps, similar to the original series, there simply wasn't any other episode ready for broadcast.
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Old August 2 2014, 04:52 AM   #66
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Re: Favourite Much-Maligned TNG Episodes

Dennis wrote: View Post
Well, BigJake's posted something about Star Trek that I more or less agree with right down the line. I think I'm going offline for the rest of the afternoon to avoid any further shocks to my decrepit system.
BillJ wrote: View Post
Isn't that one of the signs that the apocalypse is coming?


Don't worry, gents.

I'm frightened too.
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Old August 2 2014, 09:45 AM   #67
King Daniel Into Darkness
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Re: Favourite Much-Maligned TNG Episodes

Probably "Masks". Or the nuttiness of "Genesis", featuring Spider Barclay and Fish Troi.
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Old August 3 2014, 12:20 AM   #68
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Re: Favourite Much-Maligned TNG Episodes

AgentCoop wrote: View Post
I also love both "The Royale" and "Masks". Another favorite of mine that I think is less than popular is "Thine Own Self". I generally enjoy any Data-centric episode, but that one is offbeat enough to stand out.
I haven't seen Thine Own Self in a long long time, but I remember really liking it. Actually, there's a lot in Season 7 I really like, basically because before I came here, I didn't know Season 7 wasn't all that liked.
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Old September 27 2014, 12:58 AM   #69
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Re: Favourite Much-Maligned TNG Episodes

My choices (none of which have been mentioned yet):
The Last Outpost (I like the more militaristic take on the Ferengi that this episode introduces and that gets carried over into other episodes such as The Battle)
The Price (a nice blend between the above-mentioned militaristic take on the Ferengi and the characteristics that later came to define the species thanks to DS9)
Encounter at Farpoint (a much better Pilot episode than it's come to retroactively be seen as)
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Old September 27 2014, 01:27 AM   #70
EnriqueH
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Re: Favourite Much-Maligned TNG Episodes

Justice for me.
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Old September 27 2014, 05:27 PM   #71
Spectral
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Re: Favourite Much-Maligned TNG Episodes

I generally agree with most of the episodes that are considered really bad. It's usually the ones everyone rates as the best that leave me confused as to why.

The one I do really like that most everyone seems to hate is The Naked Now. Why? It's a funny, engaging episode. I get that it's sort of weird to show us the characters' un-personalities before we've even had a chance to get to know who they are, but if you're going to take it so far into left-field, it was probably better to do it early on, rather than wait until the characters were solidly established and people were going to take it all too seriously anyway. I found it to be an interesting twist on getting to know everyone.

Last edited by Spectral; September 27 2014 at 05:29 PM. Reason: conjunction?
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Old September 27 2014, 05:32 PM   #72
Spectral
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Re: Favourite Much-Maligned TNG Episodes

Also, I'm never going to not like anything that explains Data is "fully functional." That right there made the whole episode worth it. Maybe that's just me.
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Old September 27 2014, 05:42 PM   #73
Hypaspist
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Re: Favourite Much-Maligned TNG Episodes

I liked Masks when I originally saw it. It had all of the mysterious happenings that made for some of my favorite episodes of TNG before. An ancient civilization coming back to life and the possible loss of the ship were what appealed to me. I watched it recently and I saw how many problems it had. I remember it well from way back when though, so I'll never hate it.

I have always liked Night Terrors. I saw it as a kid and I liked it, and it always seemed to be one that got replayed a lot.
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Old September 27 2014, 05:44 PM   #74
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Re: Favourite Much-Maligned TNG Episodes

Spectral wrote: View Post

The one I do really like that most everyone seems to hate is The Naked Now.
I love "The Naked Now".
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Old September 27 2014, 05:56 PM   #75
Spectral
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Re: Favourite Much-Maligned TNG Episodes

Hypaspist wrote: View Post
I liked Masks when I originally saw it. It had all of the mysterious happenings that made for some of my favorite episodes of TNG before. An ancient civilization coming back to life and the possible loss of the ship were what appealed to me. I watched it recently and I saw how many problems it had. I remember it well from way back when though, so I'll never hate it.

I have always liked Night Terrors. I saw it as a kid and I liked it, and it always seemed to be one that got replayed a lot.
That's the way I feel about The Game. Not a good episode by any means, but it's one that I remember vividly from first watching the show as a kid, so it sticks out with nostalgic fondness.
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