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The Next Generation All Good Things come to an end...but not here.

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Old August 2 2014, 08:56 PM   #91
Mutai Sho-Rin
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Re: Picard's age:

Kobayshi Maru wrote: View Post
Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
Kobayshi Maru wrote: View Post

You are the one violating the rules. You implied that I was stupid and I responded by a joke. Your deliberate interpretation of my joke as a violation of the rules is aggressive therefore in violation of the rules.
What I am saying is that everything you want to accuse me of, applies to you as well.

Why do you call people stupid at the drop of a hat? That's something you should think about.
Drop it!
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Old August 2 2014, 09:00 PM   #92
yenny
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Re: Picard's age:

T'Girl wrote: View Post
Kevman7987 wrote: View Post
Ithekro wrote: View Post
Archer becomes an Admiral after Enterprise and later becomes President of the Federation.
Didn't he die the day after the Enterprise NCC-1701's commissioning?
The day after Archer transferred his consciousness into Portos body, Scotty killed him in a transporter experiment.

yenny wrote: View Post
Picard took over the command of the Stargazer around 2334. Cause there is no mention of a First Officer being kill? Picard himself would had been first Officer.
Picard: " I was remembering being at the helm of the Stargazer. A manoeuvre was being made. We were hit. "

Later, "I did what any good helmsman would have done. "

That is a reference from The Battle, which he was referring about responding to a attacked of a unknown Ferengi starship on the Stargazer.

But later in 11001001 he does mention being a helmsmen; And there nothing wrong for a Helmsman being First Officer. Cause the First Officer of Captain Pike Enterprise, I think was a Helmsman.
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Old August 2 2014, 10:52 PM   #93
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Re: Picard's age:

yenny wrote: View Post
But later in 11001001 he does mention being a helmsmen; And there nothing wrong for a Helmsman being First Officer. Cause the First Officer of Captain Pike Enterprise, I think was a Helmsman.
Really? My read of the episode was that Pike's helmsman was Lieutenant Jose Tyler. My speculation is that Number One was seated at something like "ops."

Based on the episode's dialog.


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Old August 2 2014, 11:08 PM   #94
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Re: Picard's age:

T'Girl wrote: View Post
yenny wrote: View Post
But later in 11001001 he does mention being a helmsmen; And there nothing wrong for a Helmsman being First Officer. Cause the First Officer of Captain Pike Enterprise, I think was a Helmsman.
Really? My read of the episode was that Pike's helmsman was Lieutenant Jose Tyler. My speculation is that Number One was seated at something like "ops."

Based on the episode's dialog.


According to the Star Trek Encyclopedia, Jose Tyler was the ship Navigator.
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Old August 3 2014, 02:42 AM   #95
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Re: Picard's age:

yenny wrote: View Post
According to the Star Trek Encyclopedia ...
Never seen it, but I have seen the episode.

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Old August 3 2014, 05:43 PM   #96
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Re: Picard's age:

We know Pike's XO sat at the console in front of him, and while we didn't see her actually steer the ship explicitly, she was one of the two people pressing buttons and concentrating on the forward view when Pike wanted the ship navigated to the next destination.

Also, we saw one of Sulu's highest-ranking underlings, a Lieutenant Commander with yellow collar (offscreen and in credits, he's known as LtCmdr Lojur), steering the Excelsior. We saw one of Kirk's highest-ranking underlings, LtCmdr Gary Mitchell, steering the Enterprise. Dialogue didn't specify these people as their respective skippers' Executives, but didn't rule out that possibility, either.

Until Worf came aboard, Sisko's highest-ranking underling aboard the Defiant, Dax, sat at the helm of that ship. A Bajoran officer of higher rank was present, too, though, and later she was suggested to be the ship's second-in-command, except when Worf was suggested to be that. It was a muddled issue, but again steering the ship was an acceptable job for the XO at least for a while.

What rank or position Picard held when he took command of the bridge in that incident mentioned in "Tapestry", we don't know. Could have been lowly Lt (j.s.) in charge of Life Support Monitoring, as long as he was there on the bridge and everybody higher up either wasn't, or was incapacitated.

FWIW, Q lists two distinct heroics for Picard, this taking-over-the-bridge being the second one. The list could be argued to be chronological, given the context, meaning the previous listed heroic would have come first. That one involved Picard leading an away team, which doesn't call for high rank, so we are none the wiser. All we know is that the bridge-commanding incident must have taken place after Picard's graduation and stabbing by the Nausicaan, so he held at least the Ensign rank he had at that time - and that it probably took place before his promotion to Captain rank, because few ships have more than one person of that rank present, and the Stargazer probably wasn't captained by an Admiral with a Captain as an underling. So it's still extremely vague, and thankfully so.

Timo Saloniemi
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Old August 4 2014, 05:50 AM   #97
Geoff Peterson
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Re: Picard's age:

IIRC, Tyler is noted as being the navigator in the production materials for "The Cage".
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Old August 4 2014, 07:42 AM   #98
LMFAOschwarz
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Re: Picard's age:

Well, just to muddy the waters a bit further, there were i think a couple of instances early in The Original Series where at episodes' end, Kirk says to Spock "Take us out of orbit, Mr. Spock.". or words to that effect...
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Old August 4 2014, 07:58 AM   #99
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Re: Picard's age:

Sometimes a CO will instruct the XO to give the orders to the crew to perform a task. The Captain gives an order to get something done to the First Officer, then the First Officer gives specific instructions to those that are needed to get that order completed. Things like telling engineering to power up the impulse unit and stand by for warp. Telling the navigator to plot a course specifically. Telling the helmsman to pilot the ship out of orbit. Telling communications to ask for clearances if needed, or just to report their leaving to Starfleet. Those sorts of thing.

The Captain just needs to give an order, its the XO's job to see that it gets carried out. This is why you see in TNG, Riker repeating Picard's commands from time to time.
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Old August 4 2014, 08:21 AM   #100
Kobayshi Maru
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Re: Picard's age:

Ithekro wrote: View Post
Sometimes a CO will instruct the XO to give the orders to the crew to perform a task. The Captain gives an order to get something done to the First Officer, then the First Officer gives specific instructions to those that are needed to get that order completed. Things like telling engineering to power up the impulse unit and stand by for warp. Telling the navigator to plot a course specifically. Telling the helmsman to pilot the ship out of orbit. Telling communications to ask for clearances if needed, or just to report their leaving to Starfleet. Those sorts of thing.

The Captain just needs to give an order, its the XO's job to see that it gets carried out. This is why you see in TNG, Riker repeating Picard's commands from time to time.
The XO also speaks usually in a louder more authoritarian voice, that allows the captain to look like the good guy. People often think that the Captain is more humane and kind than his underlings because he's not the one roughing them up when the job is not done fast enough...
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Old August 4 2014, 08:30 AM   #101
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Re: Picard's age:

diankra wrote: View Post
Kobayshi Maru wrote: View Post

Thirty plus years is a very long time! It's long enough to be the captain of five or six consecutive ships... It's hard to believe that after such a long time doing nothing, they gave him the command of the most advanced ship in star fleet. That wouldn't make much sense.
The 30-plus years thing is one of those writers' accidents: the TNG writers' guide said that he'd commanded the Stargazer with immense success for 22 years, implying it was immediately prior to TNG, and the reason why he'd been given the Enterprise.
Then 10-ish episodes in, The Battle established that Stargazer was lost nine years before TNG, but the 22-year line in the guide remained in and was assumed [even if the writers had wanted to change it, the writers' guide was out there in fandom], even if it was maybe never explicitly mentioned onscreen (think it was, but without checking I may be transferring my fanon assumptions...).
Hence the later hints that maybe Picard took over as Stargazer CO in some emergency that killed his superiors, and all that, which would have made him Stargazer's acting CO very very young, but not necessarily a captain in rank until Starfleet confirmed it and promoted him.

I could see his Stargazer career going something like
Lt-Cdr Picard, Second Officer (newly promoted and transferred)
Lt-Cdr Picard, acting Captain (following deaths of captain and first officer).
Commander Picard, confirmed as Captain by Starfleet in view of recent service and promoted accordingly (given that a small ship like Stargazer could be COed by a commander).
Captain Picard, CO Stargazer, promoted after several years of exemplary service in that role.
And then, eventually, Captain Picard, mandatory court martial for loss of USS Stargazer pending...
But after the court martial, why would their next move be to promote him as captain of the Enterprise? That's what I have a hard time understanding. It would make more sense if there was at least another ship in the meantime. I mean, the Star gazer was a rust bucket compared to the Enterprise.
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Old August 4 2014, 08:44 AM   #102
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Re: Picard's age:

What do we know about Picard's career between the loss of Stargazer and his taking command of Enterprise? There is about eight years between these commands. What was he doing for those years following the court martial hearing for the loss of Stargazer?
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Old August 4 2014, 08:47 AM   #103
Kobayshi Maru
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Re: Picard's age:

Ithekro wrote: View Post
What do we know about Picard's career between the loss of Stargazer and his taking command of Enterprise? There is about eight years between these commands. What was he doing for those years following the court martial hearing for the loss of Stargazer?
It's a mystery.
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Old August 4 2014, 09:42 AM   #104
Timo
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Re: Picard's age:

Only one fact is known, from TNG episode "Legacy":

Picard: "Let me tell you about your sister. The first time I saw Tasha Yar, she was making her way through a Carnelian mine field to reach a wounded colonist. Her ship had responded to their distress call, as had mine. When it was all over, I requested that she be assigned to the Enterprise."
So this happens before the start of TNG, but after the loss of Stargazer or else Picard would have requested that she be assigned to that ship instead.

Since it's before the start of TNG, but Picard is aboard a ship, we might deduce that Picard was commanding a ship between the two known by name. But he could also have been aboard as a passenger. (The ship in question is unlikely to be the E-D, because that ship supposedly did not perform any operational missions before Tasha Yar came aboard, in the flashback scene from "All Good Things..". Of course, the E-D could have been involved in "unofficial business" before formal launch to a mission, like the E-B, but would Starfleet prematurely send a ship when there already was another, supposedly fully operational ship available, namely Tasha's?)

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Old August 4 2014, 09:01 PM   #105
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Re: Picard's age:

Its worth noting that Picard's career was of such distinction that not only was he given command of the Flagship, before the end of his first year of duty in command of the Enterprise he was already being offered a promotion to admiral. Walker Keel wanted to make him an Admiral and Commandant at SFA. Admittedly he was doing that so that he could keep an eye on ominious things happening on Earth, but he could have done so if Picard was actually worthy of the position.
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