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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > The Next Generation

The Next Generation All Good Things come to an end...but not here.

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Old July 29 2014, 05:01 AM   #31
yenny
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Re: Picard's age:

Avro Arrow wrote: View Post
yenny wrote: View Post
Picard had the rank of Commander at the time he took over command. On Face of the Enemy, Ensign Stefan DeSeve call Picard commander. DeSeve left the Federation and move to Romulus in 2349.
I'm pretty sure that was just because DeSeve was coming back from Romulus, and the Romulan equivalent rank to captain is "Commander". I'm reasonably sure you can't use that line to determine Picard's rank when DeSeve originally defected.
No, And That isn't all what I've had posted. If you had read my post? You would had knew I was using past tense, not present tense. But no you didn't. You only choice what you wanted to use. When DeSeve came on Board the Enterprise, He said he need to see Captain Picard. He called Picard Captain. But when he meet Picard. He call Him Commander. But right after DeSeve had call Him Commander. Picard reply. ''At ease, It's Captain actually.'' Which was the rank that Picard had at the time when DeSeve defected to Romulus.

I thought I was the only Star Trek illiterate person here? You should know that if you had watch Star Trek, STDSN, STTNG? You would had knew that when a Romulan talk to a Star Fleet Captain, They always call them Captain. A Star Fleet officer meeting a Romulan Commander, always call them Commander.

Last edited by yenny; July 29 2014 at 05:20 AM.
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Old July 29 2014, 05:58 AM   #32
Avro Arrow
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Re: Picard's age:

^ Actually, I did read your entire post, but it's possible I did not parse your meaning correctly, and misinterpreted your point. If so, my apologies.

It sounded like you were saying that Picard would have been a commander when DeSeve defected, since DeSeve calls Picard that when DeSeve returns to the Federation. I was just saying I disagree with that premise, for the reason I stated. If that is not *actually* your premise, then mea culpa.

Of course, I am also not sure where this comes from:

yenny wrote: View Post
His first assignment was on board a Constitution Class Starship.
Assuming the "his" here refers to Picard, what is this based on? If this were true, Picard might have mentioned this to Scotty on the holodeck, rather than just mentioning that there was a Constitution class ship in the fleet museum.
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Old July 29 2014, 06:01 AM   #33
Mutai Sho-Rin
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Re: Picard's age:

yenny wrote: View Post
Avro Arrow wrote: View Post
yenny wrote: View Post
Picard had the rank of Commander at the time he took over command. On Face of the Enemy, Ensign Stefan DeSeve call Picard commander. DeSeve left the Federation and move to Romulus in 2349.
I'm pretty sure that was just because DeSeve was coming back from Romulus, and the Romulan equivalent rank to captain is "Commander". I'm reasonably sure you can't use that line to determine Picard's rank when DeSeve originally defected.
No, And That isn't all what I've had posted. If you had read my post? You would had knew I was using past tense, not present tense. But no you didn't. You only choice what you wanted to use. When DeSeve came on Board the Enterprise, He said he need to see Captain Picard. He called Picard Captain. But when he meet Picard. He call Him Commander. But right after DeSeve had call Him Commander. Picard reply. ''At ease, It's Captain actually.'' Which was the rank that Picard had at the time when DeSeve defected to Romulus.

I thought I was the only Star Trek illiterate person here? You should know that if you had watch Star Trek, STDSN, STTNG? You would had knew that when a Romulan talk to a Star Fleet Captain, They always call them Captain. A Star Fleet officer meeting a Romulan Commander, always call them Commander.
All right, enough with the attitude. No need to go to red alert for a misunderstanding.
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Old July 29 2014, 07:32 AM   #34
Ithekro
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Re: Picard's age:

Picard has clearly not served on a Constitution-class ship, or he would have mentioned that to Scotty rather than say he saw one in the museum.
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Old July 29 2014, 08:55 AM   #35
Kobayshi Maru
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Re: Picard's age:

Mojochi wrote: View Post
RoJoHen wrote: View Post
Mojochi wrote: View Post
In TNG's "All Good Things..." both Data & Worf have left Starfleet, & I think maybe Geordi too
As for Geordi, I don't think it really said. Did they mention his job at all? Was he retired?
They mention his grown family, Leah's appointment to director of the Daystrom Institute, & that he writes novels with flamboyant protagonists by Picard's standard

So I believe from that they're suggesting Geordi is retired from service & writing novels or they'd have mentioned a post of some kind I'd imagine
I wonder if it's Leah Brahms.
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Old July 29 2014, 10:38 AM   #36
RoJoHen
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Re: Picard's age:

I think it's obviously Leah Brahms.
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Old July 29 2014, 10:55 AM   #37
Disco
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Re: Picard's age:

It was Picard's age in Insurrection that unsettled me. He's 70 years old yet able to fight Ru'afo like he's a young man. The Ba'ku homeworld will have affected him though of course.
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Old July 29 2014, 02:48 PM   #38
Shat Happens
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Re: Picard's age:

RoJoHen wrote: View Post
I think it's obviously Leah Brahms.
The question is, original Leah or holo-Leah?
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Old July 29 2014, 02:59 PM   #39
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Re: Picard's age:

Avro Arrow wrote: View Post
It sounded like you were saying that Picard would have been a commander when DeSeve defected, since DeSeve calls Picard that when DeSeve returns to the Federation. I was just saying I disagree with that premise, for the reason I stated. If that is not *actually* your premise, then mea culpa.
I find it entirely possible and likely that DeSeve just used the rank of Commander as a sort of automatic response. He was used to it while on Romulus, so naturally he automatically called any starship commander that.

It's like Michael York's appearance on Law & Order: Criminal Intent. His character is French, and he calls Robert Goren an 'Inspector'. This is because in the French police, Inspector is just a normal detective rank. (An Inspector in the NYPD, on the other hand, is two grades above Captain, which Goren obviously is not.) So York's character, being French, naturally used the rank he is accustomed to. Same story here, I would think.
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Old July 29 2014, 03:35 PM   #40
Armored Saint
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Re: Picard's age:

Yeah, it's clearly sound like a normal slip from a guy who just served twenty years in an army where Commander is the equivalent of Captain in Starfleet. DeSeve see Picard as the commanding figure, not as an officer he could have known before he deflection.

Tapestry clearly contradicts the 2605 birthdate, cause Q states the incident with the Nausicaan was approximately thirty years before...so it makes Picard having the age of Patrick Stewart.
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Old July 29 2014, 03:47 PM   #41
yenny
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Re: Picard's age:

Avro Arrow wrote: View Post
^ Actually, I did read your entire post, but it's possible I did not parse your meaning correctly, and misinterpreted your point. If so, my apologies.

It sounded like you were saying that Picard would have been a commander when DeSeve defected, since DeSeve calls Picard that when DeSeve returns to the Federation. I was just saying I disagree with that premise, for the reason I stated. If that is not *actually* your premise, then mea culpa.

Of course, I am also not sure where this comes from:

yenny wrote: View Post
His first assignment was on board a Constitution Class Starship.
Assuming the "his" here refers to Picard, what is this based on? If this were true, Picard might have mentioned this to Scotty on the holodeck, rather than just mentioning that there was a Constitution class ship in the fleet museum.
Ithekro wrote: View Post
Picard has clearly not served on a Constitution-class ship, or he would have mentioned that to Scotty rather than say he saw one in the museum.
True there were never mention of Picard serving on board a Constitution Class Starship. We don't know if the Stargazer was the first starship he was assign too, or if it was another starship, or what class it was? But there still is the model of a Constitution setting on the pedestal in Picard ready room for the first nine and half episodes. Originally the Stargazer was going to be a Constitution. But cause a Constitution had set on the pedestal for the first 9 and half episodes and it no longer represent the Stargazer, but it still represent a starship, but which is not the Enterprise-A. Cause the Enterprise-A never had sideways nacelles, which the model does have.
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Old July 29 2014, 05:45 PM   #42
WarpFactorZ
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Re: Picard's age:

Ithekro wrote: View Post
Maybe he's decided to be the say at home dad. Taking a break from Starfleet to raise his kids. Being an author for those years because going back to Starfleet.
Geordi retired from Starfleet and returned to his position as host of The Reading Rainbow.
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Old July 29 2014, 10:07 PM   #43
Mojochi
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Re: Picard's age:

Kobayshi Maru wrote: View Post
Mojochi wrote: View Post
RoJoHen wrote: View Post

As for Geordi, I don't think it really said. Did they mention his job at all? Was he retired?
They mention his grown family, Leah's appointment to director of the Daystrom Institute, & that he writes novels with flamboyant protagonists by Picard's standard

So I believe from that they're suggesting Geordi is retired from service & writing novels or they'd have mentioned a post of some kind I'd imagine
I wonder if it's Leah Brahms.
Well, Utopia Planitia is where The Daystrom Institute is, & where Leah Brahms did her work in designing the Enterprise engines. So, the question is, how many Leahs does Geordi know well enough to marry, that have worked extensively enough at Utopia Planitia, such that they'd be made director of the institute there? I imagine Geordi lives there (On Mars) with her & their family, & made the trip back to Earth when he'd heard about Picard's illness... Which when you think about it is sort of equivalent to someone in our time taking a trip from Cleveland to Detroit. lol
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Old July 30 2014, 04:42 AM   #44
Avro Arrow
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Location: Ontario, Canada
Re: Picard's age:

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
I find it entirely possible and likely that DeSeve just used the rank of Commander as a sort of automatic response. He was used to it while on Romulus, so naturally he automatically called any starship commander that.
Yeah, that was kind of my point too:

Avro Arrow wrote: View Post
I'm pretty sure that was just because DeSeve was coming back from Romulus, and the Romulan equivalent rank to captain is "Commander".


I don't know how true this is, but I found this on Memory Alpha:

Memory Alpha wrote:
Noting the difference between Romulan and Starfleet rank structure, in another instance of his disorientation, DeSeve greeted Picard as "Commander" rather than Captain. Despite having previously referred to Picard as "Captain", when he made his request with Riker speak with Picard, DeSeve's later faux pas was explained by a cut line, where he had excused his error by stating, "Captains, not Commanders... it's been so long since I've... I'll remember."
Source here (last paragraph on page)
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Old July 30 2014, 10:32 AM   #45
Timo
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Re: Picard's age:

It was Picard's age in Insurrection that unsettled me. He's 70 years old yet able to fight Ru'afo like he's a young man. The Ba'ku homeworld will have affected him though of course.
This is nice consistency, really. Note how winded he becomes when fighting the equally geriatric Soran just one movie before (in similar "hot and high" conditions)...

The question is, original Leah or holo-Leah?
I'd love for it to be the holo-version, just for the scifi touch.

I find it entirely possible and likely that DeSeve just used the rank of Commander as a sort of automatic response. He was used to it while on Romulus, so naturally he automatically called any starship commander that.
The biggest nail in the coffin of the idea that Picard held the Starfleet rank of Commander back when DeSeve knew him is that we have no proof whatsoever that DeSeve would have known him, or even of him!

This in contrast with "Encounter at Farpoint", where Riker calling Troi "Lieutenant" is a very natural mistake (or even a deliberate choice) to make.

We don't know if the Stargazer was the first starship he was assign too, or if it was another starship, or what class it was?
We do. In "Relics", Picard is specific that the Stargazer was the first ship he served on.

What we don't know is whether he served on other ships besides that one and the E-D and E-E. We know he was aboard a ship between the Stargazer and the E-D, as per the "Legacy" story of him meeting Yar for the first time, but whether as a passenger or a skipper, we don't know (him being a member of the crew but not skipper might be unlikely, considering him already holding the four-pip rank and having one starship command under his belt).

What we also don't know is whether the Stargazer was Picard's first command. Perhaps Lieutenant Picard served aboard her with such distinction that he was rewarded with the command of USS Insignificant, after which he gained so much reputation and leverage that he became the next skipper of the Stargazer by his own request?

...it still represent a starship, but which is not the Enterprise-A. Cause the Enterprise-A never had sideways nacelles, which the model does have.
By the same argument, the four-nacelled ship there is not the Stargazer, because it is subtly different from the real deal, too: the wrong surface detail, the wrong registry number.

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