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Star Trek - Original Series The one that started it all...

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Old July 25 2014, 02:33 PM   #16
Marsden
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Re: The Enterprise Incident-Who did Kirk piss off to get that job??

Dale Sams wrote: View Post
"Shields up Keptin?"
"Captain our shields."
"Shields up Keptin???"
ssosmcin wrote: View Post
Timo wrote: View Post
Shields what? In Star Trek, shields are basically never raised - apparently, doing so would put the ship in jeopardy, block the sensors or drain the batteries or something. So as long as Kirk isn't shooting back, the Romulan starships would remain unshielded and open to transport.

Timo Saloniemi
Am I missing something? Because the shields are always being raised.
Thank you, both, I thought I was through the wormhole and Rod Serling was going to start monologing about my life after I read Timo's last post.
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Old July 25 2014, 02:53 PM   #17
Dale Sams
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Re: The Enterprise Incident-Who did Kirk piss off to get that job??

Marsden wrote: View Post
Dale Sams wrote: View Post
"Shields up Keptin?"
"Captain our shields."
"Shields up Keptin???"
ssosmcin wrote: View Post
Timo wrote: View Post
Shields what? In Star Trek, shields are basically never raised - apparently, doing so would put the ship in jeopardy, block the sensors or drain the batteries or something. So as long as Kirk isn't shooting back, the Romulan starships would remain unshielded and open to transport.

Timo Saloniemi
Am I missing something? Because the shields are always being raised.
Thank you, both, I thought I was through the wormhole and Rod Serling was going to start monologing about my life after I read Timo's last post.
Well, my post is supporting his.

I'm assuming he means the shields aren't normally kept in an up position at all times. Even with three Romulan ships staring you down.

Also, he could be making a crack about how Kirk is always getting caught with his pants down.

And his shields unraised.
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Old July 25 2014, 03:34 PM   #18
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Re: The Enterprise Incident-Who did Kirk piss off to get that job??

Okay, so sure, the shields aren't up unless there's a reason, if that was the meaning. They've have been known to go up automatically when another ship enters their vicinity.

Errand of Mercy:

SULU: Captain, the automatic deflector screen just popped on. Body approaching.
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Old July 25 2014, 09:05 PM   #19
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Re: The Enterprise Incident-Who did Kirk piss off to get that job??

The cloaking device being:

1. Relatively easy to find on the Romulan ship
2. Relatively easy to disconnect from the Romulan ship
3. Small and light enough for Kirk to pick up and carry
4. Able to be patched into the Enterprise's deflector/shield system by Scotty in a relatively short period of time, especially given that he had no time to prepare because he was out of the loop for most of the mission, and
5. Actually working on Enterprise when they hit the ON switch

stretches my suspension of disbelief to the breaking point. It actually makes Chekov and Uhura's mission to collect the subatomic particles from the carrier Enterprise's reactor in The Voyage Home seem relatively easy in comparison.

It is still one of my favorite third season episodes, despite all of these problems.
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Old July 25 2014, 09:16 PM   #20
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Re: The Enterprise Incident-Who did Kirk piss off to get that job??

Okay, so sure, the shields aren't up unless there's a reason, if that was the meaning. They've have been known to go up automatically when another ship enters their vicinity.
But then the shields go down, unless there's a specific reason to keep them up. With Picard Trek, it's often difficult to tell because Picard skilfully avoids prolonged fights, but Kirk Trek prominently features the ship in combat with lowered shields in, say, "Balance of Terror":

- When heading into danger, approaching a ship that has just made a series of surprise attacks, Kirk orders weapons armed but not shields raised
- When the plasma weapon is fired at them, Kirk still doesn't order shields raised, a sage move considering shields did no good for the outposts
- When the Romulans use the nuclear mine, shields aren't mentioned as a factor
- While we could attribute all that equally well to Kirk constantly keeping shields up, there's the period of "silent running" in between, speaking against such a possibility

In "Errand of Mercy", Kirk orders full shields (or deflector screens) on approach to Organia yet effortlessly beams down moments later. In "Arena", Kirk repeatedly has to tell Sulu to keep shields up during combat. And so forth. Specifically, transporting takes priority over shielding in many a plot.

The cloaking device being:

1. Relatively easy to find on the Romulan ship
2. Relatively easy to disconnect from the Romulan ship
3. Small and light enough for Kirk to pick up and carry
4. Able to be patched into the Enterprise's deflector/shield system by Scotty in a relatively short period of time, especially given that he had no time to prepare because he was out of the loop for most of the mission, and
5. Actually working on Enterprise when they hit the ON switch

stretches my suspension of disbelief to the breaking point.
We could argue that Starfleet only ever launched the mission because they had inside information about all these facts. Keeping Scotty out of the loop was the truly daft part, but I guess the writers wanted Doohan's excellent "baffled and distressed" acting added to the soup.

Timo Saloniemi
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Old July 25 2014, 09:27 PM   #21
Shat Happens
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Re: The Enterprise Incident-Who did Kirk piss off to get that job??

quoting the posts above:

>mission
>unlikely
>don't make sense
>shields
>problems
>Picard

That's why Kirk and Spock are Starfleet command officers and you aren't.
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Old July 26 2014, 12:35 AM   #22
Marsden
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Re: The Enterprise Incident-Who did Kirk piss off to get that job??

Shat Happens wrote: View Post
quoting the posts above:

>mission
>unlikely
>don't make sense
>shields
>problems
>Picard

That's why Kirk and Spock are Starfleet command officers and you aren't.
I thought you were spelling out an acronym, unless mudspp means something, but I washed out of the academy.
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Old July 26 2014, 01:22 AM   #23
Nebusj
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Re: The Enterprise Incident-Who did Kirk piss off to get that job??

Marsden wrote: View Post
Shat Happens wrote: View Post
quoting the posts above:

>mission
>unlikely
>don't make sense
>shields
>problems
>Picard

That's why Kirk and Spock are Starfleet command officers and you aren't.
I thought you were spelling out an acronym, unless mudspp means something, but I washed out of the academy.
Well, clearly you did, if you're willing to casually toss off an insult to the whole Mudspp Sodality of Free Worlds like that. Gads, somebody get the Diplomatic Corps over there fast before they get really cranky over this.
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Old July 26 2014, 01:55 AM   #24
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Re: The Enterprise Incident-Who did Kirk piss off to get that job??

Marsden wrote: View Post
Shat Happens wrote: View Post
quoting the posts above:

>mission
>unlikely
>don't make sense
>shields
>problems
>Picard

That's why Kirk and Spock are Starfleet command officers and you aren't.
I thought you were spelling out an acronym, unless mudspp means something, but I washed out of the academy.
You'll have a bright future in the merchant service. Ask for Merrick.
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Old July 26 2014, 02:22 AM   #25
Dale Sams
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Re: The Enterprise Incident-Who did Kirk piss off to get that job??

So at the mission briefing when they got to the part about, "Spock, you'll seduce the Romulan commander and give Kirk about an hour to find the cloaking device."

1. Did Kirk go, "Ha! Shoe's on the other foot now!"

2. Is Spock the kind of guy that would make uncomfortable, or would he just raise an eyebrow, look at Kirk and say "Captain, are you familiar with IDIC?"
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Old July 26 2014, 02:27 AM   #26
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Re: The Enterprise Incident-Who did Kirk piss off to get that job??

I assume Spock was just supposed to "buddy up" with who ever was commanding the Romulans. That it was a woman, slightly changed the game plan.
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Old July 26 2014, 03:29 AM   #27
Merry Christmas
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Re: The Enterprise Incident-Who did Kirk piss off to get that job??

Timo wrote: View Post
4. Able to be patched into the Enterprise's deflector/shield system by Scotty in a relatively short period of time, especially given that he had no time to prepare because he was out of the loop for most of the mission
We could argue that Starfleet only ever launched the mission because they had inside information about all these facts.
Prior to the mission, Scotty might have wondered why that piece of equipment with the circular socket was installed in engineering and tied into the defector system.

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Old July 26 2014, 03:42 AM   #28
Ithekro
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Re: The Enterprise Incident-Who did Kirk piss off to get that job??

Or they had done some training on cloaking devices, but not had a practical element.
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Old July 26 2014, 05:41 AM   #29
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Re: The Enterprise Incident-Who did Kirk piss off to get that job??

Timo wrote: View Post
Okay, so sure, the shields aren't up unless there's a reason, if that was the meaning. They've have been known to go up automatically when another ship enters their vicinity.
But then the shields go down, unless there's a specific reason to keep them up. With Picard Trek, it's often difficult to tell because Picard skilfully avoids prolonged fights, but Kirk Trek prominently features the ship in combat with lowered shields in, say, "Balance of Terror":

- When heading into danger, approaching a ship that has just made a series of surprise attacks, Kirk orders weapons armed but not shields raised
- When the plasma weapon is fired at them, Kirk still doesn't order shields raised, a sage move considering shields did no good for the outposts
- When the Romulans use the nuclear mine, shields aren't mentioned as a factor
- While we could attribute all that equally well to Kirk constantly keeping shields up, there's the period of "silent running" in between, speaking against such a possibility

In "Errand of Mercy", Kirk orders full shields (or deflector screens) on approach to Organia yet effortlessly beams down moments later. In "Arena", Kirk repeatedly has to tell Sulu to keep shields up during combat. And so forth. Specifically, transporting takes priority over shielding in many a plot.

The cloaking device being:

1. Relatively easy to find on the Romulan ship
2. Relatively easy to disconnect from the Romulan ship
3. Small and light enough for Kirk to pick up and carry
4. Able to be patched into the Enterprise's deflector/shield system by Scotty in a relatively short period of time, especially given that he had no time to prepare because he was out of the loop for most of the mission, and
5. Actually working on Enterprise when they hit the ON switch

stretches my suspension of disbelief to the breaking point.
We could argue that Starfleet only ever launched the mission because they had inside information about all these facts. Keeping Scotty out of the loop was the truly daft part, but I guess the writers wanted Doohan's excellent "baffled and distressed" acting added to the soup.

Timo Saloniemi
Yes maybe intelligence reports and counter intelligence reports got Kirk/Spock the information they needed to carry off the mission.

I wonder on the practicality of the Neutral Zone though. How come 3 ships were at the exact location that the Enterprise crossed the Neutral Zone? How big is the Neutral Zone anyway? I imagine it would be at least 10s of light years long. Do they have ships stationed along every bit of the zone waiting for crossings or did the Romulans also get some (bad) intelligence?
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Old July 26 2014, 06:16 AM   #30
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Re: The Enterprise Incident-Who did Kirk piss off to get that job??

Just watched this again. I still don't understand why Spock's communicator wasn't confiscated the moment he arrived on the Romulan ship, which conveniently allowed him to later contact Kirk, who for all he knew, was still on the Enterprise.
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