RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 140,135
Posts: 5,433,649
Members: 24,934
Currently online: 570
Newest member: Emperor Khaless

TrekToday headlines

Pine In New Skit
By: T'Bonz on Oct 21

Stewart In Holiday Film
By: T'Bonz on Oct 21

The Red Shirt Diaries #8
By: T'Bonz on Oct 20

IDW Publishing January Comics
By: T'Bonz on Oct 20

Retro Review: Chrysalis
By: Michelle on Oct 18

The Next Generation Season Seven Blu-ray Details
By: T'Bonz on Oct 17

CBS Launches Streaming Service
By: T'Bonz on Oct 17

Yelchin In New Indie Thriller
By: T'Bonz on Oct 17

Saldana In The Book of Life
By: T'Bonz on Oct 17

Cracked’s New Sci-Fi Satire
By: T'Bonz on Oct 16


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > Star Trek - Original Series

Star Trek - Original Series The one that started it all...

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old July 21 2014, 03:49 AM   #16
Green Shirt
Commodore
 
Green Shirt's Avatar
 
Location: 21133
Re: Desilu

EnriqueH wrote: View Post
I thought Justman and Roddenberry were damn close?
Isn't it common to be friendly with some people at work without actually being "friends"?
__________________
Its not easy being green.
Green Shirt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 22 2014, 05:30 PM   #17
CrazyMatt
Commander
 
CrazyMatt's Avatar
 
Location: Paradise
Re: Desilu

EnriqueH wrote: View Post
Fantastic book that "Inside Star Trek". I just read it a few weeks back. I thought Justman and Roddenberry were damn close?
Based on this work as well as several other reliable sources, Gene Roddenberry was apparently a person with a few significant personality flaws: a little fast and loose with the truth, someone who on occasion took credit for the work of others, etc.

Justman and Solow were both instrumental in bringing Star Trek to the small screen and keeping it there, at least for the first two seasons. It's obvious that Roddenberry's tendency to not readily publicly acknowledge the key roles of others (Gene Coon included) has hurt some feelings over the years.

Personally, I think Justman and Solow are simply telling us their vantage of the whole story of GR, rather than the simplistic "Roddenberry is the wonderful altruistic idealist visionary who thought up everything having to do with Star Trek" so common in fandom sources.
__________________
"You are speaking to a senior officer, Kirk!"
CrazyMatt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 24 2014, 07:43 PM   #18
EnriqueH
Captain
 
EnriqueH's Avatar
 
Location: Miami
Re: Desilu

In the last few months of reading, (again, I've been binge reading tons of non-fiction Star Trek books this year), I've read a bit about Roddenberry taking credit for stuff.

But I've also read and heard (in interviews) Roddenberry giving credit to other writers for enhancing and adding to the world of Star Trek.

So I'm a bit confused as to why there's a massive amount of criticism aimed at Roddenberry for refusing to credit others, when I've actually read/heard Roddenberry giving that credit.

Can someone illuminate me here?

At this point, I have to believe that while Roddenberry may have AT TIMES taken credit, there have also been occasions when he has given that credit.

So I have to believe that the truth is somewhere in the middle.

EnriqueH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 24 2014, 07:54 PM   #19
Christopher
Writer
 
Christopher's Avatar
 
Re: Desilu

The truth is always somewhere in the middle. Sometimes he was generous, for instance, giving Harlan Ellison sole credit for "City on the Edge of Forever" (though that may have been about taking advantage of the prestige of Ellison's name among science fiction fans). But on the other hand, in an ideal world, the creator credits for ST:TNG would say "Created by Gene Roddenberry, D.C. Fontana, David Gerrold, and Robert H. Justman," or something like that.

I don't think that Roddenberry really intended to deny others fair treatment. But he did tend to aggrandize himself, which he may not have realized was often to the detriment of others.
__________________
Christopher L. Bennett Homepage -- Site update 4/8/14 including annotations for Rise of the Federation: Tower of Babel

Written Worlds -- My blog
Christopher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 24 2014, 08:14 PM   #20
Dr. Sevrin
Vice Admiral
 
Dr. Sevrin's Avatar
 
Location: Melakon's grave
Re: Desilu

There was a 70s era LP called Inside Star Trek (I think) where it was just Roddenberry talking about the show. One moment I remember is him discussing the invention of the Klingons. He doesn't specifically say Gene Coon invented them, only that "we' did. It did seem a bit odd to me, though maybe there was a bullpen session before Coon came up with the story.
__________________
Dr. Sevrin is insane.
Dr. Sevrin is online now   Reply With Quote
Old July 24 2014, 09:28 PM   #21
Christopher
Writer
 
Christopher's Avatar
 
Re: Desilu

^It wasn't exclusively Roddenberry speaking, though he was the main speaker on the album. There were interviews with others like William Shatner and Mark Lenard (in character as Sarek).
__________________
Christopher L. Bennett Homepage -- Site update 4/8/14 including annotations for Rise of the Federation: Tower of Babel

Written Worlds -- My blog
Christopher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 26 2014, 10:08 AM   #22
Otto Harkaman
Lieutenant
 
Otto Harkaman's Avatar
 
Location: Secret HYDRA base
Re: Desilu

I don't think Gene is unique in assuming credit for what other people under him contributed to the project. I think we can think of similar situations. For example didn't Eddison take credit for creations that other people under him had invented?

About the development of the Kinetoscope:
While Edison seems to have conceived the idea and initiated the experiments, Dickson apparently performed the bulk of the experimentation,
Wiki on the development of the Kinetoscope

I think he and Tesla also had such problems.
Otto Harkaman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 26 2014, 02:25 PM   #23
Christopher
Writer
 
Christopher's Avatar
 
Re: Desilu

Oh, Thomas Edison stole credit from all sorts of other people. He wasn't an inventive genius so much as a marketing genius. Ditto Walt Disney, who built himself up as the sole auteur responsible for the achievements of many brilliant artists working under him.

And then there's Bob Kane, the so-called "creator" of Batman. He really contributed only the barest prototype of the idea that Bill Finger then developed into the character we know as Batman, and signed his name to art that was frequently or usually drawn by the "assistants" at his studio -- and then he negotiated a contract that forbade DC from ever acknowledging Finger or anyone else but himself as Batman's creator, so that to this day every Batman production is required to have "Batman created by Bob Kane" and nobody else. (Although to be fair, Finger himself largely cribbed the plot of the first Batman story from a Shadow pulp novel. Comics back then were an overlooked, disposable medium, so imitation was rampant. Superman was largely a knockoff of Doc Savage. The original Green Lantern was a thinly veiled retelling of Aladdin.)
__________________
Christopher L. Bennett Homepage -- Site update 4/8/14 including annotations for Rise of the Federation: Tower of Babel

Written Worlds -- My blog
Christopher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 26 2014, 02:35 PM   #24
Dr. Sevrin
Vice Admiral
 
Dr. Sevrin's Avatar
 
Location: Melakon's grave
Re: Desilu

Christopher wrote: View Post
^It wasn't exclusively Roddenberry speaking, though he was the main speaker on the album. There were interviews with others like William Shatner and Mark Lenard (in character as Sarek).
I stand corrected. I've not heard it since the 70s.
__________________
Dr. Sevrin is insane.
Dr. Sevrin is online now   Reply With Quote
Old July 26 2014, 02:42 PM   #25
Christopher
Writer
 
Christopher's Avatar
 
Re: Desilu

^I've had the album since I got it as part of the TMP 20th-anniversary set, which would've been 15 years ago now, but I've never listened to it in its entirety. I've been thinking of getting around to that soon, now that I have it uploaded onto my phone.
__________________
Christopher L. Bennett Homepage -- Site update 4/8/14 including annotations for Rise of the Federation: Tower of Babel

Written Worlds -- My blog
Christopher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 26 2014, 03:42 PM   #26
Geoff Peterson
Fleet Admiral
 
Geoff Peterson's Avatar
 
Location: 20 feet from an outlet
Re: Desilu

Christopher wrote: View Post
Superman was largely a knockoff of Doc Savage.
Well they copped the "Man of...." tag and the Fortress of Solitude from Doc, but I don't find too much similarity in the characters. Batman, with his lifetime of training and gadgets is closer to Doc Savage in my opinion.
__________________
Nerys Myk
Geoff Peterson is online now   Reply With Quote
Old July 26 2014, 03:57 PM   #27
Christopher
Writer
 
Christopher's Avatar
 
Re: Desilu

Doc Savage heavily influenced both characters -- not surprisingly, as he was one of the biggest pulp heroes. And of course his first name was Clark. (And The Shadow's real first name was Kent.)
__________________
Christopher L. Bennett Homepage -- Site update 4/8/14 including annotations for Rise of the Federation: Tower of Babel

Written Worlds -- My blog
Christopher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 26 2014, 04:10 PM   #28
Geoff Peterson
Fleet Admiral
 
Geoff Peterson's Avatar
 
Location: 20 feet from an outlet
Re: Desilu

Christopher wrote: View Post
Doc Savage heavily influenced both characters -- not surprisingly, as he was one of the biggest pulp heroes. And of course his first name was Clark. (And The Shadow's real first name was Kent.)
The influences mentioned in that article are mostly ripping off Doc Savage plots and gimmicks in Superman stories. Superman himself, alien raised on Earth with superpowers who used them to fight crime and has a double identity, isn't very similar to Doc Savage, a wealthy man, trained almost from birth to be the peak of mental and physical perfection who fights crime from his skyscraper HQ with the help of his assistants, using various gimmicks of his own creation.
__________________
Nerys Myk
Geoff Peterson is online now   Reply With Quote
Old July 26 2014, 04:25 PM   #29
Brown-Eyed Ghoul
Vice Admiral
 
Brown-Eyed Ghoul's Avatar
 
Location: scotpens
Re: Desilu

Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
Christopher wrote: View Post
Superman was largely a knockoff of Doc Savage.
Well they copped the "Man of...." tag and the Fortress of Solitude from Doc, but I don't find too much similarity in the characters. Batman, with his lifetime of training and gadgets is closer to Doc Savage in my opinion.
Batman and The Green Hornet can also trace their lineage back to Zorro and The Scarlet Pimpernel -- wealthy society figures who don a disguise to fight crime and injustice while keeping their true identity a secret.
__________________
“All the universe or nothingness. Which shall it be, Passworthy? Which shall it be?”
Brown-Eyed Ghoul is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 26 2014, 05:39 PM   #30
Christopher
Writer
 
Christopher's Avatar
 
Re: Desilu

Of course the characters evolved in different directions, but it's well-established that Doc Savage was one of Siegel and Shuster's main inspirations. Just because an idea evolves away from its initial inspirations doesn't mean those inspirations weren't there.
__________________
Christopher L. Bennett Homepage -- Site update 4/8/14 including annotations for Rise of the Federation: Tower of Babel

Written Worlds -- My blog
Christopher is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
desilu, tos

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 02:43 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.