RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 141,551
Posts: 5,513,546
Members: 25,144
Currently online: 603
Newest member: A.E.Andres

TrekToday headlines

Two New Starships Collection Ships
By: T'Bonz on Dec 26

Captain Kirk’s Boldest Missions
By: T'Bonz on Dec 25

Trek Paper Clips
By: T'Bonz on Dec 24

Sargent Passes
By: T'Bonz on Dec 23

QMx Trek Insignia Badges
By: T'Bonz on Dec 23

And The New Director Of Star Trek 3 Is…
By: T'Bonz on Dec 23

TV Alert: Pine On Tonight Show
By: T'Bonz on Dec 22

Retro Review: The Emperor’s New Cloak
By: Michelle on Dec 20

Star Trek Opera
By: T'Bonz on Dec 19

New Abrams Project
By: T'Bonz on Dec 18


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies I-X

Star Trek Movies I-X Discuss the first ten big screen outings in this forum!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old December 25 2014, 04:08 AM   #1
Khan 2.0
Captain
 
Khan 2.0's Avatar
 
Location: earth...but when?...spock?
at the time VI was considered better than II?

I think lot of fans considered VI so good at the time it bested II. I know I did. II was 10 years old and felt abit old hat (obviously it was considered a great movie and the best Trek film but it hadn't really got that 'classic' status it now has, I might be wrong though) whereas VI felt new, fresh, almost like a WOK for the 90s. a true continuation and conclusion to Treks II/III/IV (like a belated 4th movie) and totally made up for V. in fact V being like it was made VI feel even more of a treat! it was as if all the stars had aligned (Meyer, Nimoy. ILM) for this final one - the ultimate Star Trek movie (even crossing over with TNG and vice versa like Marvel is doing now)

looking at the VI Cinefantastique issue from 1991 theres these Altman sidebar reviews of I-VI and I think it pretty much sums up the general mood at the time (out of **** stars)

TMP ** ½
TWOK *** ½ ("Until VI this was widely considered the best of the movie lot..")
TSFS ** ½
TVH ***
TFF ** ½
TUC *** ¾ ("this impressive capper on a 25year voyage is the best of the film series....boasting the best SFX of the series and one of the greatest space battles ever committed to celluloid")


(of course in hindsight VI isn't really in the same league as II is it?)

Last edited by Khan 2.0; December 25 2014 at 01:17 PM.
Khan 2.0 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 25 2014, 04:27 AM   #2
Greg Cox
Vice Admiral
 
Location: Oxford, PA
Re: at the time VI was considered better than II

Heck, I remember that my local paper, The Seattle Times, thought that The Search for Spock was the best Trek movie to day, exceeding both Khan AND The Motion Picture.
__________________
www.gregcox-author.com
Greg Cox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 25 2014, 04:44 AM   #3
EnriqueH
Captain
 
Location: Miami
Re: at the time VI was considered better than II

I remember that Cinefantastique issue and still own it.

I was about 15 years old when the movie came out and I don't think that many people considered VI the best, though most people liked it. My impression was that most people still considered II the best.

I would say VI was in the top 3 in most lists at the time, but not the top one.

I liked VI, but I've never considered it anywhere near the best. I always had a problem with the predictable "who-done-it" part of the story. I think we all knew Valeris would be the traitor even before they left Spacedock.

I also think the movie has this weighed-down feel, like there was a certain vitality missing. And I also feel the movie has a "made for cable" look.

I prefer Treks 1-4. And though 5 was a hot mess in some respects, I've finally warmed up to a lot of it because I love the Kirk-Spock-McCoy relationships in this one. In 5, they look old, but they're physically active. In VI, it feels like everyone is stiiting around a lot.

Star Trek VI is not a bad film, it's a good film, but its energy level is like the crew after too much Romulan Ale.
EnriqueH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 25 2014, 07:10 AM   #4
FormerLurker
Fleet Captain
 
Re: at the time VI was considered better than II

They were. Weren't you watching the dinner scene?
FormerLurker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 25 2014, 08:11 AM   #5
EnriqueH
Captain
 
Location: Miami
Re: at the time VI was considered better than II

You clearly missed the point...
EnriqueH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 25 2014, 08:40 AM   #6
Nebusj
Rear Admiral
 
Nebusj's Avatar
 
View Nebusj's Twitter Profile
Re: at the time VI was considered better than II

EnriqueH wrote: View Post
I was about 15 years old when the movie came out and I don't think that many people considered VI the best, though most people liked it. My impression was that most people still considered II the best.
My recollection is similar to yours: that at the time VI was seen as a great return to form after the missteps of The Final Frontier, and was almost as good as Wrath of Khan. I don't remember people thinking it was better, mostly because there is a certain rough sloppiness around the story, where stuff doesn't quite fit together[*], but certainly that it was the best seen in a long while.

[*] The example I was using to bludgeon people in conversation back in 1991: Chekov's dinner party line about believing all species were entitled to certain inalienable human rights. Perhaps that's a good point, in the conversation being held in some parallel universe that Chekov just popped in from because it hasn't anything to do with the scene that's on-screen. Presumably a little more polish would have smoothed out that (and many other) rough edges, but the movie's got lots of such rough edges.
__________________
Math Blog: The Arthur Christmas Problem

Humor Blog: Is That Enough?
Nebusj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 25 2014, 09:39 AM   #7
gottacook
Commander
 
Location: Maryland
Re: at the time VI was considered better than II

All of us know that TWoK itself had a few points of "rough sloppiness" as well (for example, Khan's gratuitous "I shall avenge you" just after his lieutenant dies while looking up at him). I can forgive such things if the movie works as a whole, which I believe to be true of both TWoK and TUC.
gottacook is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 25 2014, 10:34 AM   #8
Tosk
Rear Admiral
 
Tosk's Avatar
 
Location: On the run.
Re: at the time VI was considered better than II

EnriqueH wrote: View Post
I think we all knew Valeris would be the traitor even before they left Spacedock.
You figured it out before the storyline even introduced the idea of there being a traitor on board? Impressive.
Tosk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 25 2014, 03:32 PM   #9
EnriqueH
Captain
 
Location: Miami
Re: at the time VI was considered better than II

Tosk wrote: View Post
EnriqueH wrote: View Post
I think we all knew Valeris would be the traitor even before they left Spacedock.
You figured it out before the storyline even introduced the idea of there being a traitor on board? Impressive.
C'mon, don't be so literal.

Though I did not read spoilers prior to the movie's release, there are trailers, magazine specials, articles and the like which talked about the plot.

So when I found out there was a conspiracy and traitor, you HAD to know it was Valeris. I don't think they should've done a who-gone-it unless you were going to commit to it and make it Spock or Chekov or someone significant. The problem with that though is that it would've broken our heart and left us bitter. Still, I was sad that Cartwright was part of it. And that's mainly because we knew him from IV. It might've worked better with Saavik, as originally proposed.

But I digress...

I think Cinemafantastique was the only magazine that ranked VI as the best, (at least that I can recall).
EnriqueH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 25 2014, 05:31 PM   #10
FormerLurker
Fleet Captain
 
Re: at the time VI was considered better than II

Cartwright was probably given his role in the conspiracy to make up for using Valeris instead of Saavik. You really only need one good guy to go bad to shock the audience. I just wish they hadn't telegraphed Cartwright's role during the briefing, with that "Bring them to their knees, then we'll be in a position to dictate terms" crap.
FormerLurker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 25 2014, 06:39 PM   #11
SchwEnt
Fleet Captain
 
Re: at the time VI was considered better than II

It's true, at the time VI was hailed as perhaps the best ST movie, even over II. The years, I think, have changed that view.

Just as TSFS suffers by comparison with the preceeding TWOK, I believe TUC is boosted by comparison with the preceeding TFF. TFF was so poorly received, if TUC was even pretty good, it'd seem like a major improvement by comparison.

I, too, felt that TUC continued on as follow-up to TVH, essentially bypassing TFF. It seemed like the next film in the series with TFF the odd one out.

But to this day, TWOK still maintains as the most highly regarded movie, while TUC seems to have suffered over the years. The failings that were perhaps overlooked are more noticeable. TUC is fine but hasn't stood the test of time as well as TWOK has.
SchwEnt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 25 2014, 06:45 PM   #12
EnriqueH
Captain
 
Location: Miami
Re: at the time VI was considered better than II

SchwEnt wrote: View Post
It's true, at the time VI was hailed as perhaps the best ST movie, even over II. The years, I think, have changed that view.
I know Cinefantastique hailed it the best, but what other sources did? I don't remember other publications claiming that. And I was following Star Trek big time at the time.

Just as TSFS suffers by comparison with the preceeding TWOK, I believe TUC is boosted by comparison with the preceeding TFF. TFF was so poorly received, if TUC was even pretty good, it'd seem like a major improvement by comparison.

I, too, felt that TUC continued on as follow-up to TVH, essentially bypassing TFF. It seemed like the next film in the series with TFF the odd one out.

But to this day, TWOK still maintains as the most highly regarded movie, while TUC seems to have suffered over the years. The failings that were perhaps overlooked are more noticeable. TUC is fine but hasn't stood the test of time as well as TWOK has
I think that's a good point. TFF was so badly received that TUC got a boost from that.

I like TUC, but it has some flaws that keep it in the bottom 2 of the 6.
EnriqueH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 25 2014, 06:57 PM   #13
gottacook
Commander
 
Location: Maryland
Re: at the time VI was considered better than II

As noted recently on another thread, TUC was tied into current events in a way none of the other movies were, and presciently so - the final dissolution of the Soviet Union, while it may not have been the direct result of Chernobyl in '86, did occur during the first weeks of TUC's theatrical run in December '91 - so that very likely played a role in how the movie was received at the time (versus now).
gottacook is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 25 2014, 07:02 PM   #14
Khan 2.0
Captain
 
Khan 2.0's Avatar
 
Location: earth...but when?...spock?
Re: at the time VI was considered better than II

Greg Cox wrote: View Post
Heck, I remember that my local paper, The Seattle Times, thought that The Search for Spock was the best Trek movie to day, exceeding both Khan AND The Motion Picture.
i think a few of the films were hailed as 'the best' upon release- II obviously as it was just TMP, but III as you mentioned (although maybe not the majority), I know IV was considered the best one at the time, skip V, then VI as in OP. GEN was abit of a general disappointment not on Vs scale though, but I think i remember FC was hailed the greatest of all the movies from various sources. Obviously not for next 2, and with ST09 everyone loved it but by then II had become an untouchable classic like Empire Strikes Back so couldn't be THE best. And STID (in)famously spilt opinions. Best ST3 can hope is to be 2nd greatest movie (like SW7 being 3rd best SW)
Khan 2.0 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 25 2014, 08:43 PM   #15
Dude111
Happy Holidays Everyone
 
Khan 2.0 wrote:
I think lot of fans considered VI so good at the time it bested II.
I dont see why..... 6 basically marked THE END of the original and beautiful Star Trek!! (7 was a small extension)
Dude111 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 08:14 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.