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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > The Next Generation

The Next Generation All Good Things come to an end...but not here.

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Old July 26 2014, 10:14 PM   #16
Kobayshi Maru
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Re: "cause and effect"

What I never understood is why they couldn't do both, that is Data's idea AND Riker's at the same time...
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Old July 26 2014, 10:56 PM   #17
JirinPanthosa
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Re: "cause and effect"

What I never understood is why it never occurred to them to somehow randomize their course based on seeding from background radiation, or some other external random factor. That way they would travel in a different vector every loop and even if one time it led to destruction it probably wouldn't next time.
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Old July 27 2014, 02:29 AM   #18
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Re: "cause and effect"

Is it just me, or upon watching it again, did you see the Enterprise and say "that's a model exploding" ?
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Old July 27 2014, 05:18 AM   #19
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Re: "cause and effect"

JirinPanthosa wrote: View Post
What I never understood is why it never occurred to them to somehow randomize their course based on seeding from background radiation, or some other external random factor. That way they would travel in a different vector every loop and even if one time it led to destruction it probably wouldn't next time.
That assumes that the course they were on was in any way relevant to what ultimately occurred.
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Old July 27 2014, 05:36 AM   #20
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Re: "cause and effect"

Maybe -- hypothetically -- more than depressurizing the main shuttle bay: look how little time he had to explain and how many buttons he presses with his unhuman super speed; maybe he didn't have time to explain that he quickly added as much preassure as he could (remember passed scenes of how quickly oxygen could be brought back to an deoxygenized Bridge, or how quickly fresh air coudl be cycled) before opening the bay door, which could add more kick. Also, he could have opened connecting doors to the main bay, to add what little was there.


Of course, how come none of the shuttle in the bay are blown out? What's holding them to the floor? 'cause nothing apparently is holding them, because we've seen episodes where somebody can steal a shuttle and the only thing he has to worry about is getting the bay door open.

And what about shuttle bay crew? Everytime we see a shuttle bay, it seems there's crew doing maintainence. Floating flotsam?
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Old July 27 2014, 06:38 AM   #21
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Re: "cause and effect"

One of the taps was transporting them to the holodeck.
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Old July 27 2014, 08:19 AM   #22
Kobayshi Maru
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Re: "cause and effect"

tharpdevenport wrote: View Post
Maybe -- hypothetically -- more than depressurizing the main shuttle bay: look how little time he had to explain and how many buttons he presses with his unhuman super speed; maybe he didn't have time to explain that he quickly added as much preassure as he could (remember passed scenes of how quickly oxygen could be brought back to an deoxygenized Bridge, or how quickly fresh air coudl be cycled) before opening the bay door, which could add more kick. Also, he could have opened connecting doors to the main bay, to add what little was there.


Of course, how come none of the shuttle in the bay are blown out? What's holding them to the floor? 'cause nothing apparently is holding them, because we've seen episodes where somebody can steal a shuttle and the only thing he has to worry about is getting the bay door open.

And what about shuttle bay crew? Everytime we see a shuttle bay, it seems there's crew doing maintainence. Floating flotsam?
The needs of the many... They were counted as acceptable casualty...
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Old July 27 2014, 10:37 AM   #23
at Quark's
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Re: "cause and effect"

DonIago wrote: View Post
JirinPanthosa wrote: View Post
What I never understood is why it never occurred to them to somehow randomize their course based on seeding from background radiation, or some other external random factor. That way they would travel in a different vector every loop and even if one time it led to destruction it probably wouldn't next time.
That assumes that the course they were on was in any way relevant to what ultimately occurred.
I think there's an additional problem with this.

We know that the time-repeat fragment of this loop is about a day, or a few days, at best, they don't. When they are listening to the fragments in the loop, there's nothing to indicate this collision will be tomorrow, or three months from now. (although I must admit, the episode suggests that they know it will be 'soon').

To randomise your actions over a potentially unlimited period of time is infeasible, in particular if you don't know what courses of action will effect the outcome and what won't.
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Old July 27 2014, 11:47 AM   #24
MacLeod
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Re: "cause and effect"

USS Triumphant wrote: View Post
It seems to me that the old girl would have had to have been retired, or at least distinguished in some fashion, since otherwise there would be confusion with the contemporary Bozeman. (The name would surely have been reused at some point, given the significance of the name in the history of warp flight.)
Assuming at that point the name was in use by another vessel. Remember The name Enterprise wasn't used for over eighty years. Circa 2161-2245 or around twenty years 2245-2264.
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Old July 27 2014, 07:45 PM   #25
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Re: "cause and effect"

JJohnson wrote: View Post
Is it just me, or upon watching it again, did you see the Enterprise and say "that's a model exploding" ?
The explosion doesn't look convincing, the model is twisted during the explosion between warp engines... takes out some of the "cool factor" from the explosion.
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Old July 27 2014, 10:35 PM   #26
Green Shirt
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Re: "cause and effect"

JJohnson wrote: View Post
Is it just me, or upon watching it again, did you see the Enterprise and say "that's a model exploding" ?
At least they used a different explosion each time. My favorite was the one where the ship just fizzed out.
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Old July 27 2014, 10:57 PM   #27
JirinPanthosa
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Re: "cause and effect"

at Quark's wrote: View Post
DonIago wrote: View Post
JirinPanthosa wrote: View Post
What I never understood is why it never occurred to them to somehow randomize their course based on seeding from background radiation, or some other external random factor. That way they would travel in a different vector every loop and even if one time it led to destruction it probably wouldn't next time.
That assumes that the course they were on was in any way relevant to what ultimately occurred.
I think there's an additional problem with this.

We know that the time-repeat fragment of this loop is about a day, or a few days, at best, they don't. When they are listening to the fragments in the loop, there's nothing to indicate this collision will be tomorrow, or three months from now. (although I must admit, the episode suggests that they know it will be 'soon').

To randomise your actions over a potentially unlimited period of time is infeasible, in particular if you don't know what courses of action will effect the outcome and what won't.
No, but just deciding to go forward or double back is not an 'Infeasible amount of randomness'. And it makes a lot more sense than just always choosing to keep going on the logic that "For all we know, doubling back is what led to the anomaly".
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Old July 27 2014, 11:21 PM   #28
Elvira
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Re: "cause and effect"

DonIago wrote: View Post
That assumes that the course they were on was in any way relevant to what ultimately occurred.
There's that possibility, that no matter how they changed course, the anomaly would have still appeared in front of them.

Marsden wrote: View Post
Some one actually did the math, somewhere online, and it's barely noticable. Certainly nothing to get out of the way of anything faster than a tortise.
I did the math a few years ago.

Given the dimensions of the main shuttle bay door, and assuming that there is sea level pressure in the main flight deck, there would be over six thousand tons of force for several seconds.

According to the (non-canon) ST: TNG Technical Manual, each of the Enterprise D's malnuvering thrusters generates about 510 metric tonnes of thrust. So opening the main shuttle bay door was equal to firing twelve of the Enterprise's maneuvering thrusters for several seconds..

Now consider how Picard was able to maneuver the ship using only a single maneuvering thruster (at a time) in Samaritan Snare.

Also consider how a person can move a multi-tonne car by pushing on the back end with only 50 to 100 pounds of force.


Last edited by Elvira; July 27 2014 at 11:46 PM.
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