RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 139,668
Posts: 5,429,375
Members: 24,821
Currently online: 440
Newest member: SB118_Laxyn


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > Star Trek - Original Series

Star Trek - Original Series The one that started it all...

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old July 24 2014, 05:49 PM   #61
Marsden
Captain
 
Marsden's Avatar
 
Location: Getting killed so the captain can have tea later.
Re: Yeoman Rand & Production order

EnriqueH wrote: View Post


I didn't like the "captain, I'm scared..." moments for these characters.
I didn't like those too much, but I only remember her saying that in very scary situations, so maybe I'm making excuses, but it could be she isn't embarassed by her feelings. After all, if anybody like Sulu or McCoy said, "I'm scared" the torrent of Whimp! s would be deafening. Men aren't allowed to be scared.


EnriqueH wrote: View Post
I was especially pissed when Joachim smacks Uhura in Space Seed and needed to be saved by McGivers.
I'm not going to tell you what you saw, but I saw something different. McGivers didn't have the stomach to see Joachim beat Uhura anymore and saved herself. Uhura didn't look like she needed to be saved, she looked like she was about to beat him if she could just figure a way out how to do it. She only showed sorrow when Khan said Kirk was dead.

EnriqueH wrote: View Post
On a separate note, it's been bothering me for a long time that we never saw Uhura take the conn.
Well, she did in the animated episode "The Lorelei Signal" I'm not sure if you count that, I do. It was the best part of the episode, she just doesn't assume command, she seizes it. Kirk and Spock are gone and Sulu and Scott are incapacitated but still on the bridge so she just takes command and tells them she's in charge. But it would have been nice in a live action episode, she doesn't do nearly that much in the movies, either.
__________________
"A man either lives life as it happens to him, meets it head-on, and licks it. Or he turns his back on it and starts to wither away."

Last edited by Marsden; July 24 2014 at 08:16 PM. Reason: Bolded I do, because I count the animated series
Marsden is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 24 2014, 06:42 PM   #62
Christopher
Writer
 
Christopher's Avatar
 
Re: Yeoman Rand & Production order

^There's no good reason not to count the animated series. It was produced under Roddenberry's total creative control, many TOS veterans worked on it, and it was intended as a direct and authentic continuation of the series, just with a slight change in format and approach. Heck, it was even titled just Star Trek, whereas Filmation adaptations of live-action shows generally had changed titles like The New Adventures of... whatever. That drives home that the intent was simply to pick up where the live-action show left off. The legal kerfuffle that led to its temporary decanonization was resolved decades ago, and it's now officially counted as part of the franchise even in "canon-only" sources like StarTrek.com and Memory Alpha. As far as I'm concerned, it's seasons 4 and 5.

Uhura also seemed to be in command of the bridge in "BEM," I think it was, but she wasn't sitting in the command chair and it wasn't made explicit.
__________________
Christopher L. Bennett Homepage -- Site update 4/8/14 including annotations for Rise of the Federation: Tower of Babel

Written Worlds -- My blog
Christopher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 24 2014, 06:45 PM   #63
ssosmcin
Rear Admiral
 
ssosmcin's Avatar
 
Location: ssosmcin
Re: Yeoman Rand & Production order

Marsden wrote: View Post
I haven't given it a second thought. I watched them in production order on pbs channel 44 when they bought the package in the original unsyndicated cuts.
Yes! Brought to us in part by Caps Comic Cavalcade! And Leader Business Systems!

My god, man, I loved those Saturday night three-fers. What great times... Eventually, though, they did switch to the cuts, 46 minute versions. Which sucked, but man, no commercials.

Found this:

__________________
"Tranya is people!"
ssosmcin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 5 2014, 02:14 AM   #64
Marsden
Captain
 
Marsden's Avatar
 
Location: Getting killed so the captain can have tea later.
Re: Yeoman Rand & Production order

Sorry if I'm posting in too old a thread, but it took me some time to watch these.

The episodes in production order:
  1. The Cage. Not here.
  2. Where No Man Has Gone Before. Same note
  3. The Corbomite Maneuver.
Here she is for the first time. She brings the Captain dinner and his coffee, didn't get too much to do but she seems professional, certainly not a ditzy secretary type.

4. Mudd's Women. Not here again.
5. The Enemy Within.

This really is the first episode she get some more screen time and her own quarters. She start out just the competent assistant but then dark Kirk wants more from her. She really didn't get to do much but defend herself and look annoyed at the end with Spock's strange comment.

6. The Man Trap.

This is the first time she really is allowed to be herself, and also shows to be fully one of the crew, even though she's still delivering lunch, she's very familiar with most of the officers and fits in well. I wonder how long she and Sulu were together that day. Was she Sulu's yeoman for the day?

7. The Naked Time.

This time she almost seems to be Spock's assistant because she is organizing his data tapes and handing them to him. Interestingly, she is one of the few people not affected at all by the disease(? I'm not sure what to call it, condition?). It's strange that Spock calls "Leslie" Rand, (I don't think he was actually Leslie yet). Was she supposed to be in that scene, Harvey or one of the others would probably fill that in, but she does take over later at Kirk's order, so I wound think she'd be in that same exact position twice and be so surprised the second time. Also interesting, Captain Kirk reaffirms his attraction to her, but despite the "removal of inhibitions" he really doesn't do anything but mutter in her direction briefly.

8. Charlie X.

This is another big one for her, she gets plenty of screen time being the first woman Charlie sees and he imprints on her almost immediately. While she's going about her business, in this episode, she really seems to be the "strong female presence" amongst the crew, even more that Uhura. Almost like she would be Charlie's mother figure to Kirk's father figure, too bad Charlie listened to The End too many times.

9. Balance of Terror.

She talks to the Captain twice, about log entries in which she ends up being hugged and clinging to him for a shot and later to check on him to make sure he's served if he wants anything from the galley.

10. What Are Little Girls Made Of?

11. Dagger of the Mind.

She's not in either of these, and I don't see where she could have fit. Anyone who implied Helen Noel was a replacement was wrong, she couldn't have taken that place. Christine gets her episode, again no place for Janice, Spock is hardly even in that one.

12. Miri.

Janice's last hurrah. She really does seem to be the "mother" figure again. And her attraction to Kirk is forced to the surface by her suffering from the disease and facing premature death. As I was discussing earlier, I don't find this particular portrayal to be bad, but it was more typical of the time of the woman to be "in need" of the man's attention. I also just realized though that this particular scene is what shakes Miri's devotion to Kirk when she sees Kirk try to comfort Janice, so it really is relevant to the plot and not just a filler type thing.

13. The Conscience of the King.

Well, she's barely in it and doesn't say anything.

Summing up, she's in it less than I remembered. Also, she really doesn't strike me as the "number 4 of the big 4" that she was supposed to be, but she did seem more important in at least 2 maybe 3 episodes than Uhura or Christine really ever was. But I didn't really notice any kind of arc. The only thing that might, just possibly, was that after the Miri incident she couldn't stand to look at Kirk anymore and transferred away to another ship.
__________________
"A man either lives life as it happens to him, meets it head-on, and licks it. Or he turns his back on it and starts to wither away."
Marsden is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 5 2014, 02:54 AM   #65
Christopher
Writer
 
Christopher's Avatar
 
Re: Yeoman Rand & Production order

Marsden wrote: View Post
4. Mudd's Women. Not here again.
"Mudd's Women" is a weird one. Despite Uhura's token presence, the episode seems to be written under the assumption that the Enterprise crew consists entirely of men who haven't seen a woman in months. Okay, there's a passing reference to "the male members of my crew" implying there are women, and it's supposed to be the Venus drug that's making the men so gaga, but as far as I recall, we don't actually see any female crew other than Uhura, so it feels like an old-fashioned story about lonely sailors reacting to the anomalous presence of females aboard their ship.


5. The Enemy Within.

This really is the first episode she get some more screen time and her own quarters. She start out just the competent assistant but then dark Kirk wants more from her. She really didn't get to do much but defend herself and look annoyed at the end with Spock's strange comment.
Not just a strange comment but a horrible one. He was basically saying, "Yeah, but you kinda liked that guy who tried to rape you, right?" It's the kind of joke that wouldn't have been unusual among men in the '60s but that we now see as incredibly insensitive. This and "Mudd's Women" are both shockingly sexist, on a level we probably don't see again until "Turnabout Intruder."


6. The Man Trap.

This is the first time she really is allowed to be herself, and also shows to be fully one of the crew, even though she's still delivering lunch, she's very familiar with most of the officers and fits in well. I wonder how long she and Sulu were together that day. Was she Sulu's yeoman for the day?
Since they were having a meal together, I always assumed they were off duty.


7. The Naked Time.

This time she almost seems to be Spock's assistant because she is organizing his data tapes and handing them to him. Interestingly, she is one of the few people not affected at all by the disease(? I'm not sure what to call it, condition?).
It was transmitted by touch, so I guess none of the affected crew touched her. McCoy wasn't affected either.


It's strange that Spock calls "Leslie" Rand, (I don't think he was actually Leslie yet).
It's ambiguous whether he said "Rand" or "Ryan." Some sources have called Paskey's character Ryan Leslie because of this.


Also interesting, Captain Kirk reaffirms his attraction to her, but despite the "removal of inhibitions" he really doesn't do anything but mutter in her direction briefly.
That's because he's already overcome the effect through sheer willpower by the time he sees her again.


12. Miri.

...As I was discussing earlier, I don't find this particular portrayal to be bad, but it was more typical of the time of the woman to be "in need" of the man's attention. I also just realized though that this particular scene is what shakes Miri's devotion to Kirk when she sees Kirk try to comfort Janice, so it really is relevant to the plot and not just a filler type thing.
Was it bad as a plot point in a 1960s television episode? I guess not. But as the characterization of a 23rd-century woman, as seen by 21st-century audiences, it's kind of regrettable.
__________________
Christopher L. Bennett Homepage -- Site update 4/8/14 including annotations for Rise of the Federation: Tower of Babel

Written Worlds -- My blog
Christopher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 5 2014, 04:09 AM   #66
LMFAOschwarz
Fleet Captain
 
LMFAOschwarz's Avatar
 
Re: Yeoman Rand & Production order

Marsden wrote: View Post
8. Charlie X.

This is another big one for her, she gets plenty of screen time being the first woman Charlie sees and he imprints on her almost immediately. While she's going about her business, in this episode, she really seems to be the "strong female presence" amongst the crew, even more that Uhura. Almost like she would be Charlie's mother figure to Kirk's father figure, too bad Charlie listened to The End too many times.
You lost me on that one. I didn't know that "when I came aboard" was part of the song lyrics.

What is it with the blonde female characters that they can't last a series? Rank, Tasha, Kes...weird.
LMFAOschwarz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 5 2014, 01:14 PM   #67
Marsden
Captain
 
Marsden's Avatar
 
Location: Getting killed so the captain can have tea later.
Re: Yeoman Rand & Production order

LMFAOschwarz wrote: View Post
You lost me on that one. I didn't know that "when I came aboard" was part of the song lyrics.

Charlie awoke before dawn, he put his boots on
He made a weird face
And he walked on down the hall
He went into the room where Sulu lived, and...then he
Paid a visit to Scott, and then he
He walked on down the hall, and
And he came to a door...and he looked inside
Kirk, yes Charlie, I want to kill you*
Janice...I want to..:censo red:


* Because taking his ship away from him would kill him. As a refrence listen to I'm Your Captain/Closer To Home.


That earthquake in France is Jim Morrison spining in his grave.
__________________
"A man either lives life as it happens to him, meets it head-on, and licks it. Or he turns his back on it and starts to wither away."
Marsden is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 5 2014, 02:53 PM   #68
Nerys Myk
Fleet Admiral
 
Nerys Myk's Avatar
 
Location: House of Kang, now with ridges
Re: Yeoman Rand & Production order

Rand was pretty much a Chuck Cunningham. A character that the creator realized wasn't all that useful and interesting. So they sent her below decks, never to return. ( til the movies)
__________________
The boring one, the one with Khan, the one where Spock returns, the one with whales, the dumb one, the last one, the one with Kirk, the one with the Borg, the stupid one, the bad one, the new one, the other one with Khan.
Nerys Myk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 5 2014, 04:00 PM   #69
Christopher
Writer
 
Christopher's Avatar
 
Re: Yeoman Rand & Production order

Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
Rand was pretty much a Chuck Cunningham. A character that the creator realized wasn't all that useful and interesting. So they sent her below decks, never to return. ( til the movies)
There are conflicting stories as to why she left, and I don't think that's one of them. According to Memory Alpha:

The exact reason for Whitney's dismissal is uncertain; her struggle with alcohol and use of diet pills are sometimes cited as causes, while creator Gene Roddenberry's biography suggests that her departure was simply a budget cutback. In her autobiography, The Longest Trek: My Tour of the Galaxy, Whitney describes an incident in which she was sexually assaulted by an executive of the Star Trek production team, who is not identified by name, and she drew a link between this incident and her sacking a few days later, but afterwards states her role was going to be eliminated in any case.
I think it's safe to say that Roddenberry's tame explanation is the one least likely to be true. But it seems like the reasons for her dismissal had nothing to do with how well the character was working out.
__________________
Christopher L. Bennett Homepage -- Site update 4/8/14 including annotations for Rise of the Federation: Tower of Babel

Written Worlds -- My blog
Christopher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 5 2014, 04:45 PM   #70
Nerys Myk
Fleet Admiral
 
Nerys Myk's Avatar
 
Location: House of Kang, now with ridges
Re: Yeoman Rand & Production order

Christopher wrote: View Post
Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
Rand was pretty much a Chuck Cunningham. A character that the creator realized wasn't all that useful and interesting. So they sent her below decks, never to return. ( til the movies)
There are conflicting stories as to why she left, and I don't think that's one of them. According to Memory Alpha:

The exact reason for Whitney's dismissal is uncertain; her struggle with alcohol and use of diet pills are sometimes cited as causes, while creator Gene Roddenberry's biography suggests that her departure was simply a budget cutback. In her autobiography, The Longest Trek: My Tour of the Galaxy, Whitney describes an incident in which she was sexually assaulted by an executive of the Star Trek production team, who is not identified by name, and she drew a link between this incident and her sacking a few days later, but afterwards states her role was going to be eliminated in any case.
I think it's safe to say that Roddenberry's tame explanation is the one least likely to be true. But it seems like the reasons for her dismissal had nothing to do with how well the character was working out.
Could be a combination of factors. But judging how the character was/wasn't being used I think the realization that the Yeoman character wasn't a good one is part of it.
__________________
The boring one, the one with Khan, the one where Spock returns, the one with whales, the dumb one, the last one, the one with Kirk, the one with the Borg, the stupid one, the bad one, the new one, the other one with Khan.
Nerys Myk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 5 2014, 05:25 PM   #71
Christopher
Writer
 
Christopher's Avatar
 
Re: Yeoman Rand & Production order

Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
Could be a combination of factors. But judging how the character was/wasn't being used I think the realization that the Yeoman character wasn't a good one is part of it.
She was used no more or less than one would expect of a supporting character in a 1960s television series. Be careful not to judge TOS by today's ensemble-cast standards. Only Kirk and Spock were guaranteed starring roles every week, and everyone else was generally just there to support the two stars.

Out of the 11 episodes of Rand's time on the series ("Corbomite Maneuver" through "Conscience of the King"), she was present in 8 and played a significant role in 4. In that same interval, Sulu was in 6 of those episodes and had a sizeable role in maybe 3, while Scotty was present in only 5 episodes and didn't really have a role beyond technical exposition in any of them, with "The Enemy Within" and "The Naked Time" being the only ones where his technical role is all that important. So your claim that Rand wasn't being used just doesn't add up. For the duration of her run, she was used more heavily than anyone except Kirk, Spock, and McCoy.

Besides, they certainly didn't drop the concept of a yeoman. Yeoman characters continued to feature in numerous subsequent episodes, often written into scripts that had been meant for Rand. So it wasn't the idea of a yeoman character they had a problem with.
__________________
Christopher L. Bennett Homepage -- Site update 4/8/14 including annotations for Rise of the Federation: Tower of Babel

Written Worlds -- My blog
Christopher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 5 2014, 05:39 PM   #72
Nerys Myk
Fleet Admiral
 
Nerys Myk's Avatar
 
Location: House of Kang, now with ridges
Re: Yeoman Rand & Production order

I got the impression Rand was supposed to be a "secondary character" like McCoy rather than a supporting character along the lines of Scotty or Uhura. The Captain's Yeoman seemed prominent in the outlines for the show. But once the show went into production the need for the character seemed to diminish. Scotty as the Chief Engineer became more important to the plots and the Engineer character isn't one featured in the original outlines for the show.
__________________
The boring one, the one with Khan, the one where Spock returns, the one with whales, the dumb one, the last one, the one with Kirk, the one with the Borg, the stupid one, the bad one, the new one, the other one with Khan.
Nerys Myk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 5 2014, 06:02 PM   #73
CorporalCaptain
Admiral
 
CorporalCaptain's Avatar
 
Location: Kentucky
Re: Yeoman Rand & Production order

Man, the more I look at Rand's wig, the more ridiculous it looks. I can't imagine that it helped taking her seriously, even back in the 60s.
__________________
John
CorporalCaptain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 5 2014, 06:19 PM   #74
Christopher
Writer
 
Christopher's Avatar
 
Re: Yeoman Rand & Production order

Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
I got the impression Rand was supposed to be a "secondary character" like McCoy rather than a supporting character along the lines of Scotty or Uhura. The Captain's Yeoman seemed prominent in the outlines for the show. But once the show went into production the need for the character seemed to diminish. Scotty as the Chief Engineer became more important to the plots and the Engineer character isn't one featured in the original outlines for the show.
As I've established, Scotty was one of the least prominent characters during the 11-episode span when Rand was present. He's the only one to appear in fewer than half of those episodes. (Uhura was at least seen or heard in every one except "Miri," even though she had little to do.) So Scotty didn't begin to grow in prominence until after Rand was already gone. It's not as if he crowded her out or something.

So focusing on just those 11 episodes, the order of character significance seems to be: Kirk, Spock, McCoy, Rand, Sulu, Scott, Uhura -- although Scott and Uhura could be flipped if you go by number of appearances rather than story prominence. There is simply no basis for the belief that Rand was underutilized or overshadowed by other characters. Rather, she was dropped for reasons that probably had nothing to do with the character -- either because of Whitney's drug use, because of her alleged sexual assault by a producer, because of budget cuts, or as a combination of those factors -- and her departure then created a void that allowed other characters to grow in prominence.

The only character-based reason I've ever heard as a potential explanation for Rand's departure was that someone thought it was a bad idea to saddle Kirk with an ongoing love interest and wanted him free to have romances-of-the-week. This is plausible, considering that many TV love-interest characters in the '60s through the '90s were dropped for just that reason. But if that were a factor, it would mean that the character was dropped for becoming too prominent, too important to Kirk, rather than the reverse.
__________________
Christopher L. Bennett Homepage -- Site update 4/8/14 including annotations for Rise of the Federation: Tower of Babel

Written Worlds -- My blog
Christopher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 5 2014, 06:21 PM   #75
T'Girl
Vice Admiral
 
T'Girl's Avatar
 
Re: Yeoman Rand & Production order

EnriqueH wrote: View Post


I didn't like the "captain, I'm scared..." moments for these characters.
We got one of those from Chekov in The Deadly Years. He screamed like a child and ran from the room.

T'Girl is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 11:41 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.