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Star Trek - Original Series The one that started it all...

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Old July 19 2014, 09:53 PM   #16
LordMudd
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Re: Yeoman Rand & Production order

Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
Was there a woman running?
Not the point. The point is: why not? The attitude of the time.

CCC.
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Old July 19 2014, 09:59 PM   #17
Nerys Myk
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Re: Yeoman Rand & Production order

LordMudd wrote: View Post
Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
Was there a woman running?
Not the point. The point is: why not? The attitude of the time.

CCC.
But would women vote for a woman because she's a woman? Or would they vote on the issues? Look at the results of the election, Nixon was slightly ahead on Kennedy with women. Which kind of defeats the vote for the sexy guy concept. Maybe they vote based on the candidates positions rather than other factors. Even waaaay back in 1960.
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Old July 20 2014, 04:48 PM   #18
LordMudd
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Re: Yeoman Rand & Production order

Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
LordMudd wrote: View Post
Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
Was there a woman running?
Not the point. The point is: why not? The attitude of the time.

CCC.
But would women vote for a woman because she's a woman? Or would they vote on the issues? Look at the results of the election, Nixon was slightly ahead on Kennedy with women. Which kind of defeats the vote for the sexy guy concept. Maybe they vote based on the candidates positions rather than other factors. Even waaaay back in 1960.
I have always heard that the sexy guy concept was the reason the womens movement could never get unified behind a female candidate. Could be misinformation from the media or excuses from the libbers, but they always talk about more women voters than men and I have always wondered why they never just said "Screw you guys, we're putting a woman in charge."

CCC.
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Old July 20 2014, 05:27 PM   #19
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Re: Yeoman Rand & Production order

Well, it's incredibly sexist and insulting to think that female voters as a bloc would be so shallow and stupid as to make their decisions about the future and security of the nation -- and the well-being of their children -- based only on how attractive they find a candidate. Whoever came up with that insane notion obviously did it only to demean and dismiss women as a legitimate political force.
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Old July 20 2014, 08:17 PM   #20
LordMudd
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Re: Yeoman Rand & Production order

Christopher wrote: View Post
Well, it's incredibly sexist and insulting to think that female voters as a bloc would be so shallow and stupid as to make their decisions about the future and security of the nation -- and the well-being of their children -- based only on how attractive they find a candidate. Whoever came up with that insane notion obviously did it only to demean and dismiss women as a legitimate political force.
and the way women in Trek and other SciFi were being written at that time wasn't?

CCC.
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Old July 21 2014, 02:21 AM   #21
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Re: Yeoman Rand & Production order

LordMudd wrote: View Post
I am also reminded of a contemporary political situation, Kennedy vs Nixon. Why did so many women vote for Kennedy instead of a female candidate in a country where women voters outnumbered men by almost 2 to 1, thus giving us something we still don't have, a female President?
That doesn't make sense at all. Obama didn't became President because all the male half-black half-white university professors voted for him.
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Old July 21 2014, 02:55 AM   #22
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Re: Yeoman Rand & Production order

LordMudd wrote: View Post
I am also reminded of a contemporary political situation, Kennedy vs Nixon. Why did so many women vote for Kennedy instead of a female candidate in a country where women voters outnumbered men by almost 2 to 1, thus giving us something we still don't have, a female President?
This is the first time I ever heard Nixon described as a female candidate.

Television hurt Nixon in the 1960 debate. He was fair skinned, didn't want to wear makeup for the camera, wore a light grey suit, and perhaps hadn't shaved since morning, so by airtime his five o'clock shadow was showing. Kennedy was healthily tanned in a dark suit, so he photographed well.

People who watched the debate thought Kennedy won, those who listened to it on the radio thought Nixon did.
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Old July 21 2014, 03:02 AM   #23
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Re: Yeoman Rand & Production order

And Nixon was visibly sweating with the camera right in his face.
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Old July 21 2014, 03:03 AM   #24
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Re: Yeoman Rand & Production order

Trying to get back on topic, I love Spock's character development in production order. It definitely gives you a certain perspective on the character that I haven't had before. Very interesting.
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Old July 21 2014, 03:17 AM   #25
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Re: Yeoman Rand & Production order

EnriqueH wrote: View Post
Trying to get back on topic, I love Spock's character development in production order. It definitely gives you a certain perspective on the character that I haven't had before. Very interesting.
Yes, he starts out as "Happy Spock" in The Cage, and by the end of the first season, has become the Spock that we all know and love.
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Old July 21 2014, 03:17 AM   #26
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Re: Yeoman Rand & Production order

And director Joseph Sargent in "Corbomite" gave Nimoy a key clue to the character when suggesting how to say "Fascinating."
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Old July 21 2014, 03:22 AM   #27
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Re: Yeoman Rand & Production order

EnriqueH wrote: View Post
Trying to get back on topic, I love Spock's character development in production order. It definitely gives you a certain perspective on the character that I haven't had before. Very interesting.
Yep. I will never understand why it's become fashionable to revert to broadcast order for TOS when production order, at least for the first season, flows so much more organically. No, there's not a lot of actual plot continuity to favor one order over the other, but there are clear progressions in the way the writers, actors, and production staff were gradually developing the characters and the world, refining the costumes and sets, and so on, building and discovering the universe as they went. There is simply no advantage to broadcast order, and it's a travesty that it's been pushed as the "correct" order ever since the first DVD box set came out. (Before that, production order had been all but universally accepted for at least a couple of decades, routinely used in syndication and in every major reference work.)
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Old July 21 2014, 06:00 AM   #28
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Re: Yeoman Rand & Production order

^Hear, hear.

Push The Button wrote: View Post
Yes, he starts out as "Happy Spock" in The Cage
He's also "Yelly Spock" for the first few episodes.

"DEFLECTORS, FULL INTENSITY!"

...and of course...

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Old July 21 2014, 06:03 AM   #29
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Re: Yeoman Rand & Production order

Broadcast order is only interesting if you want to try to experience the show as regular viewers would have back in the day, but otherwise, why bother?
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Old July 21 2014, 02:27 PM   #30
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Re: Yeoman Rand & Production order

Christopher wrote: View Post
But then the episode goes and scuttles that with the "Look at my legs" scene, which is just embarrassing.
What do you mean by embarrassing?


Embarrassing for Rand? I think she is thinking that she's within 48 hours of death and embarrasment is not something that still has room left. She may never have expressed any feeling about wanting to attract Kirk in normal circumstances, but dying and being mentally impared could make buried feelings surface. I thought it was well done as Captain Kirk and Janice were trying to cope with their own relationships, personal and professional, and dealing with them both coming to an abrupt end, because they were nearly dead.

Plus, I've seen enough shows where the "oh were dying, let's get some sex in before were dead because we'll be dead soon"
That is embarrassing, imo. I'm thinking of a recent show that was redone, but I'm not mentioning the name.
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