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Old July 17 2014, 07:02 PM   #1
Deranged Nasat
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That Name's Taken! You can be "Emirates"...

We've discussed this before on the forum, the manner in which most of the nations in the novel 'verse have a different name (rather than endless repetitions of "So-and-so Republic" or "Such-and-such Empire"). Many of these names were pre-established, but not all are canonical (The Talarians and Tzenkethi both apparently take theirs from the Star Charts, where they were applied absent any sense of what these nations were like (save a few established basics: Talarian hierarchy strictly male-dominated, strong patriarchal structure; Tzenkethi led by an autarch - though in retrospect, the Federation's willingness to believe that he was overthrown in a coup seems rather strange. Tzenkethi? Overthrowing their leader? What madness is this?)

I wonder where the balance lies for other readers, regarding the diversity of names. I'm sure we all appreciate some variety in naming, hence the decision to be a bit adventurous, but where does it head into territory where it becomes a bit laughable? Where does it touch on "can't use that, it's used already" territory, as though there's a list somewhere and once a name's gone, it's gone?

Major powers:

United Federation of Planets.

Klingon Empire: (Speculative aside: Since the novels have suggested that Kling is a city on Qo'noS (Forged in Fire, for one), might we assume that Kling is the birthplace of Kahless? (I'm not sure we've ever been told where he was from, though his victory at Qam-Chee seems to have resulted in his being associated primarily with that settlement, hence its development into the First City). If Kling is Kahless' home, it might explain why he formed the Klingon Empire, leading the species to identify as Klingon, in the same manner as the Bajora gave their name to their species after annexing all of their planet?

Romulan Star Empire: (Rather more ambitious and ideologically-defined, I think. Klingons may conquer to enrich the spirit, but they're also driven by practical resource acquisition. Romulans are driven by an assumption of ethnic supremacy and manifest destiny. The stars is where their empire aims and where it will be. The Klingons had an empire and then entered space, but the Romulans came from space before going back to it to make their empire. Still, disappointingly similar, thank goodness someone added the 'Star', or we'd have a duplicate, and that won't do).

Cardassian Union
Ferengi Alliance
Tzenkethi Coalition
Gorn Hegemony
Tholian Assembly
Breen Confederacy
Holy Order of the Kinshaya
Talarian Republic
Sheliak Corporate
Regnancy of the Carnelian Throne
New Thallonian Protectorate (former empire, had the good manners to change its name and not step on any toes. I applaud it).

Vomnin Confederacy (duplicate. The Vomnin have scavenged a pre-used name rather than make their own. Typical).

Minor powers:

Goeg Domain
Venette Convention
Nalori Republic (duplicate)
First Federation (duplicate, although I believe they actually used it first, so rightfully the UFP should be the one to change its name. I don't think the UFP actually existed when Balok did his thing).
Metron Consortium: Used in Star Charts, though I don't like this one. Why would we assume that the Metron reference in Business as Usual is a nod to the Metron in Arena? It doesn't make sense that pacifist Metrons would run an arms dealership. Just coincidence, I assume. (Or some company using the name ironically, like "Mahatma Ghandi Munitions"? Which would be fun. Hopefully their logo is a grizzled Metron armed to the teeth).
Patriarchy of Kzin (or just "Patriarchy", because there's only one Patriarch worth mentioning, presumably, mighty be his second-hand feline personage).
Guidon Pontificate
Ubarrak Primacy
Danteri Empire (duplicate).

Then those that don't seem to have a nation distinct from their race, because they're one and the same:

Watraii
Balduk

I also wonder what the official name of the Orion nation is? Is it indeed, Orion Colonies?
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Last edited by Deranged Nasat; July 17 2014 at 07:27 PM. Reason: Adding Enterprise1701's reminders
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Old July 17 2014, 07:07 PM   #2
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Re: That Name's Taken! You can be "Emirates"...

TNG: Cold Equations: Silent Weapons used "Orion Colonies" for the Orion state. I'm not sure if it was a precedent or not.

What about the Daa'Vit Confederacy, the Ubarrak Primacy, and the New Thallonian Protectorate? And Cort and Tezwa?

In Myriad Universes - Shattered Light - The Tears of Eridanus, set in a reality where Vulcans never became part of the interstellar community and thus Romulans don't exist, narration states that the Klingon Empire is surrounded by the Interstellar Union (this reality's Andorian-led Federation), the Gorn Hegemony, the Holy Order of the Kinshaya, the Metron Consortium, the Guidon Space Pontificate, the Taurhai Unity, and the Ksahtryan Regime.

Last edited by Enterprise1701; July 17 2014 at 07:22 PM.
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Old July 17 2014, 07:13 PM   #3
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Re: That Name's Taken! You can be "Emirates"...

Enterprise1701 wrote: View Post
TNG: Cold Equations: Silent Weapons used "Orion Colonies" for the Orion state. I'm not sure if it was a precedent or not.
It would be funny if the Colonies were once genuine colonies answering to a strong centralized government on Orion (some time in the distant past), and then just stopped listening to it, and the Colonies became more powerful than the withering, toothless state back home, but kept the name.

Although given the references to past Orion empires, e.g. Children of Kings, Rihannsu backstory (which aren't in continuity, but are often borrowed from), I suppose that's more or less the case. The Orion Empire(s) collapsed, the merchant clans and raiders went on without it. Long live the Colonies?
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Old July 17 2014, 07:15 PM   #4
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Re: That Name's Taken! You can be "Emirates"...

Deranged Nasat wrote: View Post
Enterprise1701 wrote: View Post
TNG: Cold Equations: Silent Weapons used "Orion Colonies" for the Orion state. I'm not sure if it was a precedent or not.
It would be funny if the Colonies were once genuine colonies answering to a strong centralized government on Orion (some time in the distant past), and then just stopped listening to it, and the Colonies became more powerful than the withering, toothless state back home, but kept the name.

Although given the references to past Orion empires, e.g. Children of Kings, Rihannsu backstory (which aren't in continuity, but are often borrowed from), I suppose that's more or less the case. The Orion Empire(s) collapsed, the merchant clans and raiders went on without it. Long live the Colonies?
But Silent Weapons has scenes taking place on Orion, the Orion homeworld itself. And the homeworld is thus the capital of the "Orion Colonies".
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Old July 17 2014, 07:17 PM   #5
Deranged Nasat
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Re: That Name's Taken! You can be "Emirates"...

Enterprise1701 wrote: View Post
Deranged Nasat wrote: View Post
Enterprise1701 wrote: View Post
TNG: Cold Equations: Silent Weapons used "Orion Colonies" for the Orion state. I'm not sure if it was a precedent or not.
It would be funny if the Colonies were once genuine colonies answering to a strong centralized government on Orion (some time in the distant past), and then just stopped listening to it, and the Colonies became more powerful than the withering, toothless state back home, but kept the name.

Although given the references to past Orion empires, e.g. Children of Kings, Rihannsu backstory (which aren't in continuity, but are often borrowed from), I suppose that's more or less the case. The Orion Empire(s) collapsed, the merchant clans and raiders went on without it. Long live the Colonies?
But Silent Weapons has scenes taking place on Orion, the Orion homeworld itself. And the homeworld is thus the capital of the "Orion Colonies".
Maybe they moved back in and took over? Their corporations and merchant princes muscling the weak government out of the way?

So the leading families in the Colonies control the homeworld, and in fact control the Colonies from the homeworld?

This is confusing...
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Old July 17 2014, 07:23 PM   #6
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Re: That Name's Taken! You can be "Emirates"...

Enterprise1701 wrote: View Post
the Taurhai Unity, and the Ksahtryan Regime.
I know the Taurhai are from one of the RPG universes, a far-Beta Quadrant neighbour of the Romulans. I think they were mentioned in one of the Typhon Pact books, so apparently they do now exist in the 'novel verse in some form.

I don't know if the Ksahtryan are established elsewhere.

Enterprise1701 wrote: View Post
What about the Daa'Vit Confederacy, the Ubarrak Primacy, and the New Thallonian Protectorate?
Ooh, I forgot these. And the Danteri and Balduk. I'll edit.
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Old July 17 2014, 07:37 PM   #7
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Re: That Name's Taken! You can be "Emirates"...

I'm not sure how you could use "Colonies" as the name of a sovereign state, because a colony is by definition a non-sovereign territory under the control of another state. That's why I rejected Star Charts' postulate of "United Rigel Colonies" for the Rigel government's formal name and changed it to "United Rigel Worlds and Colonies."

In the 22nd century, the Orion Syndicate seems to be effectively the government of Orion. Although I see it as probably being the sort of thing where there's a nominal legal government but everyone in it is a puppet of the mob -- basically a Mafia state. At least, whatever system may exist on the homeworld, the Syndicate is a law unto itself among the stars. In the 23rd century, there's an Orion state that declares itself politically neutral but engages in piracy and espionage -- perhaps that's still the same state of affairs, a government with intimate ties to organized crime. Or maybe the Syndicate had actually taken over the government by that point. I remember that Ganz in Vanguard was called a merchant prince -- a term used for Italian banking families like the Medicis that became so wealthy that they rose to the status of unofficial rulers and eventually actual nobility and royalty.

By the 24th century, though, it appears from Silent Weapons that the Orion homeworld itself has cleaned up its act, and the Syndicate as shown in DS9 seems like a more liminal organization, no longer at the center of power, as well as a multispecies one. In fact, canonically we've never seen an actual Orion within the 24th-century Orion Syndicate. So maybe the Orions purged the corruption from their own society and state and only the offworld portions of the organization were left to reorganize.


EDIT: The Kshatriyans are from Corona by Greg Bear. It's a strange choice of names, since Kshatriya is the name of the warrior varna of classical Indian culture.
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Old July 17 2014, 07:46 PM   #8
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Re: That Name's Taken! You can be "Emirates"...

Deranged Nasat — You forgot the Mirror Universe's nascent Galactic Commonwealth.
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Old July 17 2014, 07:50 PM   #9
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Re: That Name's Taken! You can be "Emirates"...

Deranged Nasat wrote: View Post
Ooh, I forgot these. And the Danteri and Balduk. I'll edit.
I thought the Danteri Empire was a member of the Federation?
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Old July 17 2014, 07:55 PM   #10
Deranged Nasat
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Re: That Name's Taken! You can be "Emirates"...

Christopher wrote: View Post
I'm not sure how you could use "Colonies" as the name of a sovereign state, because a colony is by definition a non-sovereign territory under the control of another state. That's why I rejected Star Charts' postulate of "United Rigel Colonies" for the Rigel government's formal name and changed it to "United Rigel Worlds and Colonies."
With the Rigel Colonies that are mentioned semi-regularly being a subdivision of Rigel - all the outposts and alien settlements, etc., that recognise the Trade Commission's authority but aren't II, III, or V (or IV). Which I thought was a neat little retcon.

Christopher wrote: View Post
In the 22nd century, the Orion Syndicate seems to be effectively the government of Orion. Although I see it as probably being the sort of thing where there's a nominal legal government but everyone in it is a puppet of the mob -- basically a Mafia state. At least, whatever system may exist on the homeworld, the Syndicate is a law unto itself among the stars. In the 23rd century, there's an Orion state that declares itself politically neutral but engages in piracy and espionage -- perhaps that's still the same state of affairs, a government with intimate ties to organized crime. Or maybe the Syndicate had actually taken over the government by that point. I remember that Ganz in Vanguard was called a merchant prince -- a term used for Italian banking families like the Medicis that became so wealthy that they rose to the status of unofficial rulers and eventually actual nobility and royalty.

By the 24th century, though, it appears from Silent Weapons that the Orion homeworld itself has cleaned up its act, and the Syndicate as shown in DS9 seems like a more liminal organization, no longer at the center of power, as well as a multispecies one. In fact, canonically we've never seen an actual Orion within the 24th-century Orion Syndicate. So maybe the Orions purged the corruption from their own society and state and only the offworld portions of the organization were left to reorganize.
That's an interesting history. But then, I like it when societies and nations in Trek, and other franchises, actually change over time, rather than remaining static. In the recent Trill thread I mentioned that I liked the revelation in Facets that when Dax was first hosted, it was highly controversial for a female to hold office on Trill, and I've mentioned before how I was disappointed that Vulcan's Heart's creation of the name Tal Shiar was contradicted by other books which have the organization existing two centuries earlier. Watching the criminal sector on Orion wax and wane over the Trek timeline makes the Orions more interesting (and as I've mentioned, I think the Orions have recently been elevated to the position of a major race with a lot of depth, rather than just the green-space-vixens-and-pirates they were before).

I'd suppose that the Orions might have had incentive to clean up the filth if they were facing sanctions from the Federation. Or the UFP had become so powerful and prosperous that they were losing out by being sundered from it and wanted to do business. Orion is capitalist and individualistic - I suppose if there existed a situation wherein the profitable thing to do was clean up the act a bit, they'd do it.
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Old July 17 2014, 07:55 PM   #11
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Re: That Name's Taken! You can be "Emirates"...

David Mack wrote: View Post
Deranged Nasat — You forgot the Mirror Universe's nascent Galactic Commonwealth.
So I did.
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Old July 17 2014, 07:58 PM   #12
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Re: That Name's Taken! You can be "Emirates"...

Deranged Nasat wrote: View Post
David Mack wrote: View Post
Deranged Nasat — You forgot the Mirror Universe's nascent Galactic Commonwealth.
So I did.
Are you going to make sections for mirror universe states and defunct prime universe states?

And I just remembered the Sovereign Dynasty of Krios Prime and the Ten Tribes of Capella.
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Old July 17 2014, 08:00 PM   #13
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Re: That Name's Taken! You can be "Emirates"...

Enterprise1701 wrote: View Post
Deranged Nasat wrote: View Post
Ooh, I forgot these. And the Danteri and Balduk. I'll edit.
I thought the Danteri Empire was a member of the Federation?
Originally it was, but that's become rather problematic. Later New Frontier books seem to have discarded that and made Danter an independent nation (as have A Time to Kill, Small World and other stories to mention them).

My glossing-over-the-early-weirdness answer is that Ambassador Ryjaan was making a big deal over his people's treaty with the Federation. I assume that when the UFP mediated the Danter-Xenex conflict and assured a Danteri withdrawal, they probably signed some treaty of non-aggression or whatever, and since the Thallonians were secretive and insular, the Federation appreciated having an "ally" on the Thallon border. And so now, Ryjaan is stressing that for all it's worth - "we're with the Federation!"
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Old July 17 2014, 08:02 PM   #14
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Re: That Name's Taken! You can be "Emirates"...

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And I just remembered the Sovereign Dynasty of Krios Prime and the Ten Tribes of Capella.
I'm only including interstellar powers, so I haven't listed Capella, Cort, Tezwa or any of the other notable single-planet states.

The Sovereign Dynasty of Krios, though, might have counted in the 22nd Century, before it was annexed by the Klingon Empire. And it has the good sense to not be a duplicate, which is the central point here.
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Old July 17 2014, 08:04 PM   #15
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Re: That Name's Taken! You can be "Emirates"...

Not up on the books, but I'm always trying to come up with different alien race names in a space 4x game I play. Something like Droovian Repugnancy might be good.
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