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General Trek Discussion Trek TV and cinema subjects not related to any specific series or movie.

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Old July 15 2014, 10:48 PM   #106
Ho Ho Homeier
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Re: Slightly pathetic that theres never been LGBT characters in ST

teacake wrote: View Post
What does the fact that something is mainly read by "girls" have to do with anything?
Well, it should be obvious, shouldn't it? For an erotic work, it doesn't have enough pictures to hold a man's interest.
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Old July 15 2014, 10:51 PM   #107
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Re: Slightly pathetic that theres never been LGBT characters in ST

I did see the issue of sexual orientation the first time i saw it.
I'd say straight people in Trek reject a same sex advance the same way gay people would reject an opposite sex advance. Politely and without prejudice.
In Jeri Taylor's Voyager novel Pathways, Harry rejects his gay roommates intetest and they stay close friends.
There's also some hilarious stuff in New Frontier with bisexual hermaphrodite Burgoyne pursuing Selar.
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Old July 15 2014, 10:51 PM   #108
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Re: Slightly pathetic that theres never been LGBT characters in ST

It would be even more wrong to 'force' a gay character into the show and make that character constantly remind us that he is gay. Shouldn't our gay character only remind us aboud his gayness through the fact that he has subspace communications with his husband and nobody else on the crew gives a flying fuck about it. \

While I know that this isnt really the case in star trek, and it should be.
However, and i dont know if this was already pointed out, there was this crewmember in the new Star Trek movie(s) that did look like she wasnt exactly a heterosexual. Sadly i have a hard time finding a picture.


There it is

Last edited by GENERAL_DS; July 15 2014 at 11:03 PM.
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Old July 15 2014, 11:08 PM   #109
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Re: Slightly pathetic that theres never been LGBT characters in ST

she looks fabulous but I don't see that bald equals not straight
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Old July 15 2014, 11:10 PM   #110
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Re: Slightly pathetic that theres never been LGBT characters in ST

That combination of fashion choices is mostly seen as a stereotype.
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Old July 15 2014, 11:11 PM   #111
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Re: Slightly pathetic that theres never been LGBT characters in ST

borgboy wrote: View Post
she looks fabulous but I don't see that bald equals not straight
This. My wife keeps telling me I'll wake up one morning to her with a shaved head.
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Old July 15 2014, 11:13 PM   #112
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Re: Slightly pathetic that theres never been LGBT characters in ST

GENERAL_DS wrote: View Post
However, and i dont know if this was already pointed out, there was this crewmember in the new Star Trek movie(s) that did look like she wasnt exactly a heterosexual.
I don't see anything in that photo that would make me draw a conclusion about her sexuality at all.
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Old July 15 2014, 11:15 PM   #113
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Re: Slightly pathetic that theres never been LGBT characters in ST

GENERAL_DS wrote: View Post
It would be even more wrong to 'force' a gay character into the show and make that character constantly remind us that he is gay. Shouldn't our gay character only remind us aboud his gayness through the fact that he has subspace communications with his husband and nobody else on the crew gives a flying fuck about it. \
Yeah Kirk should definitely not have womanized all those womanly woman, he should have kept it to subspace communications. But nooo he had to shout his heterosexuality to the whole quadrant.
While I know that this isnt really the case in star trek, and it should be.
However, and i dont know if this was already pointed out, there was this crewmember in the new Star Trek movie(s) that did look like she wasnt exactly a heterosexual. Sadly i have a hard time finding a picture.


There it is
Right and you can tell Darwin's sexual preference in this picture HOW?
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Old July 15 2014, 11:16 PM   #114
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Re: Slightly pathetic that theres never been LGBT characters in ST

Melakon wrote: View Post
teacake wrote: View Post
What does the fact that something is mainly read by "girls" have to do with anything?
Well, it should be obvious, shouldn't it? For an erotic work, it doesn't have enough pictures to hold a man's interest.
I always want to ask the people who are outraged that 50 Shades sold a lot of books how big their porn collections are. You know your porn collections aren't going to win oscars don't you?!!
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Old July 15 2014, 11:17 PM   #115
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Re: Slightly pathetic that theres never been LGBT characters in ST

There are a couple of women with shaved heads in both ST'09 and ID. I suspect JJ and company have repurposed Illia's bald look not as a feature of her species, but as a 23rd century fashion trend. Or perhaps human women just want to look Deltan.
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Old July 15 2014, 11:19 PM   #116
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Re: Slightly pathetic that theres never been LGBT characters in ST

Ithekro wrote: View Post
you would have an Asian and an African on the bridge of the Enterprise, without it actually being pointed out for the most part
That because the audience can simply look at them and see that they are Asian and Black.

Who is to say that there weren't homosexuals also on the bridge
Basically the script does. Unless they are written as gay, straight or something else, they have no sexuality In the case of Uhura's race you can tell just by looking at her. With a gay character you have to deliberately tell the audience through actions or dialog that they're gay, or they aren't.

Having someone sitting in the back of the bridge and saying maybe they're gay is like saying maybe they're left handed.

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Old July 15 2014, 11:21 PM   #117
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Re: Slightly pathetic that theres never been LGBT characters in ST

My first though was Deltan woman.

The question is, how does someone in Hollywood, place a character on screen to be homosexual, and make it so that it doesn't matter, without making them overtly homosexual to the point of stereotype to make the audience has to notice it....in the context of 1980s and 1990s prime time, non-comedy, not cable, television?

Most Hollywood images of homosexuality up to that point that I recall have been comedy and camp in nature. Especially in the 1970s.

Also recall this was the post-AIDs scare days and near the end of the Reagan administration. At least at first.
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Old July 15 2014, 11:29 PM   #118
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Re: Slightly pathetic that theres never been LGBT characters in ST

borgboy wrote: View Post
Even before Smithers officially came out on the Simpsons, John Waters did an episode where he played a version of himself who was Homer's gay friend.
That's the episode I'm referring to which ran in 1997. And comedies have it easier than dramas being socially progressive because people who disagree don't get as angry.

In 1997 both Simpsons and South Park had an episode with a gay character that the 'everyman' members of the cast had to learn not to be prejudiced against. Ten years later gay characters in both shows were just kinda there and normal. (And in the South Park universe the word f** was redefined in the dictionary to mean 'An inconsiderate motorcycle driver'). But in 1997, TV only really addressed homosexuality in a satirical/protesting context.

I suppose there were Roseanne and Ellen, but Roseanne focused on ansillary characters and Roseanne's mother didn't come out until the last season, and Ellen started going way down in ratings after she came out, proving in 1995 you couldn't have a gay character without a media shitstorm. And Billy Crystal played a gay guy on Soap in the 70s, but again, a comedy. Will & Grace debuted in 1998.

A world where homosexuality isn't a big deal doesn't imply that everybody is bisexual or gender fluid. It does imply that if somebody finds themselves attracted to a member of the same sex for the first time, it doesn't feel like a major life event or major change in personal identity. You just date who you're attracted to, whether they be your own gender or the other one. And probably also implies that people just try to be themselves instead of pigeonholing their gender identity one way or the other.

Anyway, in The Host, the Trill host is clearly a slave rather than a blended personality, and I wonder if Beverly wasn't also worried that every time she had sex with her she'd be raping the host.

And Dax was clearly bisexual as was Garak, so there has been an LGBT character in Trek.

Last edited by JirinPanthosa; July 15 2014 at 11:43 PM.
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Old July 15 2014, 11:58 PM   #119
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Re: Slightly pathetic that theres never been LGBT characters in ST

Ellen was a comedy. It just wasn't a very good show.
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Old July 16 2014, 11:06 AM   #120
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Re: Slightly pathetic that theres never been LGBT characters in ST

GENERAL_DS wrote: View Post
It would be even more wrong to 'force' a gay character into the show and make that character constantly remind us that he is gay.
The same way we we're constantly remind of Riker's heterosexuality?

... and nobody else on the crew gives a flying fuck about it.
The episode In Theory, when Data began a relationship with Lt. Jenna D'Sora, details of her previous relationship were know to Data's friends. A crewmember's sexuality and sex life in the enclosed environment of a ship would likely be the subject of health gossip.

I remember some commentary on Geordie's (lack of) sex life.

... that did look like she wasnt exactly a heterosexual.

What makes you think that person is a "she?" Just a young man trying something different.

Both Spock and Sulu used blue eye shadow at one point.

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