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Old July 17 2014, 06:34 AM   #151
teacake
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Re: Slightly pathetic that theres never been LGBT characters in ST

Melakon wrote: View Post
mendelin wrote: View Post
Most activists are heterosexual people (mostly girls and sometimes young boys), who wants to see some exotic relationships, because it's funnier than common one.
I'd like to see the statistics you used to make this statement.
I find it weird that you are seemingly being dismissive based on age. You do know lots of people who don't qualify as "boys and girls" want to see gay characters, and not just because it is exotic. What is this, the zoo? NO. The world is full of old straight people who have gay children, gay siblings, gay friends, gay co workers, gay PEOPLE in their lives and they look at tv and ask where the heck are the people they know and love?
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Old July 17 2014, 01:28 PM   #152
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Re: Slightly pathetic that theres never been LGBT characters in ST

junkdata wrote: View Post
Ithekro wrote: View Post
One things about Star Trek and at least ethnic groups, is that, at least in the 60s, you would have an Asian and an African on the bridge of the Enterprise, without it actually being pointed out for the most part. There were their as equals doing their job. Who is to say that there weren't homosexuals also on the bridge, doing there job. It is just there sexuality didn't come up, or they were not of the flamboyant types.

Is it about sexuality or about lifestyle? You wouldn't normally see flamboyant character types in a military setting or a serious setting like the bridge of a starship, would you? The stereotype "flaming homosexual" wouldn't be a standard type anymore, would it? After centuries of acceptance? There would be no reason for any extra social or cultural styles to be added to a character, when they aren't, in most cases, for the likes of Uhura and Sulu.

Sulu being Asian was almost never brought up. Uhura being African only came up, I think, twice were it had any meaning. Once when they encountered Abraham Lincoln, and then when she was being reeducated, her having learned Swahili first, then English. Chekov's Russian was done for laughs. Scott's accent was used just to be used. In The Next Generation Worf's Klingon was pushed a lot. Data being a android was pushed a lot. La'Forge being blind came up from time to time, but aside from his external appliance, most of the time it wasn't a issue unless the plot needed either his VISOR for reasons, or to make a situation.

If in the future straight and gay exist side by side in term of societial acceptance, why are only heteros depicted?

In universe reason?
Percentage of the population being homosexual or at least not heterosexual is what?
5-10 pc of the population is gay.

In all the thousands of star trek people, hook ups and couples, we havent seen two dudes holding hands in the back ground, and nothing but a spot of lipstick lesbianism and what? A plot conception that can be seen as somehow analogous to transgender people on earth.

The wire had omar little.

ST has beverly crushers relationship with a dude that turned into a dudette and then got rejected.

I see a lot of shows from America get lit up with hate on IMDB for having gay characters. Presumably things are worse in other non english speaking nations. In europe though its no big thing in most places, and frankly, star trek was a big enough franchise to include incidental homosexuality.

"its a family show waaaah"

Its the twenty first century, and this is a show about the future. Where are all the gays? Do the conservatives believe medicine eradicated homosexuality? Is that what star trek is saying?

All thats really happening, is a mob mentality is being allowed to trump freedom of association, and accurate representation on television.

Star trek lost viewing figures?

You know why? No one wants to watch a "boring and safe" show on space. When it started it was revolutionary, not boring.

We are now post HBO and post 9/11. We are post "post-9/11". we are post iraq and afghan. We are post NSA and almost post global recession. We are pretty close to being post NASA, with all the budget cuts. We are post black president and post DADT and post any decent series for almost 20 years.

How about we get a grown up star trek and not one aimed at prudes and gender tyrants.

LBTQ make up 3.4% of the population in theory.

http://inamerica.blogs.cnn.com/2012/...ntify-as-lgbt/
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Old July 17 2014, 01:52 PM   #153
junkdata
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Re: Slightly pathetic that theres never been LGBT characters in ST

xavier wrote: View Post
junkdata wrote: View Post
Ithekro wrote: View Post
One things about Star Trek and at least ethnic groups, is that, at least in the 60s, you would have an Asian and an African on the bridge of the Enterprise, without it actually being pointed out for the most part. There were their as equals doing their job. Who is to say that there weren't homosexuals also on the bridge, doing there job. It is just there sexuality didn't come up, or they were not of the flamboyant types.

Is it about sexuality or about lifestyle? You wouldn't normally see flamboyant character types in a military setting or a serious setting like the bridge of a starship, would you? The stereotype "flaming homosexual" wouldn't be a standard type anymore, would it? After centuries of acceptance? There would be no reason for any extra social or cultural styles to be added to a character, when they aren't, in most cases, for the likes of Uhura and Sulu.

Sulu being Asian was almost never brought up. Uhura being African only came up, I think, twice were it had any meaning. Once when they encountered Abraham Lincoln, and then when she was being reeducated, her having learned Swahili first, then English. Chekov's Russian was done for laughs. Scott's accent was used just to be used. In The Next Generation Worf's Klingon was pushed a lot. Data being a android was pushed a lot. La'Forge being blind came up from time to time, but aside from his external appliance, most of the time it wasn't a issue unless the plot needed either his VISOR for reasons, or to make a situation.

Percentage of the population being homosexual or at least not heterosexual is what?
5-10 pc of the population is gay.

In all the thousands of star trek people, hook ups and couples, we havent seen two dudes holding hands in the back ground, and nothing but a spot of lipstick lesbianism and what? A plot conception that can be seen as somehow analogous to transgender people on earth.

The wire had omar little.

ST has beverly crushers relationship with a dude that turned into a dudette and then got rejected.

I see a lot of shows from America get lit up with hate on IMDB for having gay characters. Presumably things are worse in other non english speaking nations. In europe though its no big thing in most places, and frankly, star trek was a big enough franchise to include incidental homosexuality.

"its a family show waaaah"

Its the twenty first century, and this is a show about the future. Where are all the gays? Do the conservatives believe medicine eradicated homosexuality? Is that what star trek is saying?

All thats really happening, is a mob mentality is being allowed to trump freedom of association, and accurate representation on television.

Star trek lost viewing figures?

You know why? No one wants to watch a "boring and safe" show on space. When it started it was revolutionary, not boring.

We are now post HBO and post 9/11. We are post "post-9/11". we are post iraq and afghan. We are post NSA and almost post global recession. We are pretty close to being post NASA, with all the budget cuts. We are post black president and post DADT and post any decent series for almost 20 years.

How about we get a grown up star trek and not one aimed at prudes and gender tyrants.

LBTQ make up 3.4% of the population in theory.

http://inamerica.blogs.cnn.com/2012/...ntify-as-lgbt/
I can name at least two actors in major trek roles that are gay. Sulu TOS and Spock in the new films.

So weve had two real life gay actors in major roles and zero gay characters in the whole trek universe...

T'Girl wrote: View Post
junkdata wrote: View Post
I find the whole gay thing kind of irksome. That's why I'm not gay.
That's ... really not the way it works.

Im a live and let live kind of guy. I just dont like people playing politics with my fiction, and of course the other poster above is right. Its actually more of a political statement not to include 1 gay character in something that big.

Star trek is selectively showing the results of some kind of gay genocide at this point, to make conservative "family equals nuclear family" America happy.
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Old July 17 2014, 05:30 PM   #154
Gov Kodos
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Re: Slightly pathetic that theres never been LGBT characters in ST

Sulu and Spock are not actors, they're fictional characters. Takei and Quinto are actors who played those characters.

I just dont like people playing politics with my fiction
When did you gain the creative rights to Star Trek?
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Old July 17 2014, 05:38 PM   #155
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Re: Slightly pathetic that theres never been LGBT characters in ST

teacake wrote: View Post
Melakon wrote: View Post
mendelin wrote: View Post
Most activists are heterosexual people (mostly girls and sometimes young boys), who wants to see some exotic relationships, because it's funnier than common one.
I'd like to see the statistics you used to make this statement.
I find it weird that you are seemingly being dismissive based on age.
Who, me? All I asked for were statistics that he used to make the statement.
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Old July 17 2014, 10:08 PM   #156
Maurice
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Re: Slightly pathetic that theres never been LGBT characters in ST

xavier wrote: View Post
LBTQ make up 3.4% of the population in theory.

http://inamerica.blogs.cnn.com/2012/...ntify-as-lgbt/
That poll says "identify as LGBT", which isn't the same thing as what people actually are. That article itself states that the percentages who identify themselves that way vary by group, which implies there are groups in which people are less likely to identify as that. If 3.4% of the populace identifies as in a group when within a culture where there are still stigmas associated with such groups, then the actual number is likely higher.

Furthermore, those statistics typically go binary, forgetting the idea that sexuality is a spectrum, and a lot of people aren't 100% either, and thus frequently omits bisexuals, so the number of people who may actually have same sex attraction relationships is in all likelihood higher still.
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Old July 17 2014, 11:00 PM   #157
teacake
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Re: Slightly pathetic that theres never been LGBT characters in ST

Melakon wrote: View Post
teacake wrote: View Post
Melakon wrote: View Post
I'd like to see the statistics you used to make this statement.
I find it weird that you are seemingly being dismissive based on age.
Who, me? All I asked for were statistics that he used to make the statement.
Obviously I am talking to the person you quote who used the term "boys and girls" I addressed. By quoting you as well I'm agreeing with your question.
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Old July 17 2014, 11:03 PM   #158
Melakon
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Re: Slightly pathetic that theres never been LGBT characters in ST

^ I'd only been awake about 2 hours when I asked that, so forgive me, the brain wasn't in full operation yet.
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Old July 18 2014, 12:14 AM   #159
T'Girl
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Re: Slightly pathetic that theres never been LGBT characters in ST

xavier wrote: View Post
LBTQ make up 3.4% of the population in theory.
Depend on how the questions were phrased in the survey. If it's engaging in gay/bisexual sexual activity within a certain time period, and transgenders who are actively seek/have had sex reassignment surgeries (SRS) the number is around 3.8 percent.

However if the questions had to do with sexual orientation and inclinations (not activities) for gay/bisexuals, and transsexuals who identify as such but who aren't necessarily seeking SRS, the number more than doubles to around 8 to 10 percent.

If you're gay and not sexually active, you're still gay.

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Old July 18 2014, 12:17 AM   #160
teacake
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Re: Slightly pathetic that theres never been LGBT characters in ST

And I am sorry if I sounded snippy, I was awake for half an hour when I posted that, I am the sleep deprived winner!!!!

Wait. What?
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Old July 18 2014, 12:40 AM   #161
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Re: Slightly pathetic that theres never been LGBT characters in ST

T'Girl wrote: View Post
xavier wrote: View Post
LBTQ make up 3.4% of the population in theory.
Depend on how the questions were phrased in the survey. If it's engaging in gay/bisexual sexual activity within a certain time period, and transgenders who are actively seek/have had sex reassignment surgeries (SRS) the number is around 3.8 percent.

However if the questions had to do with sexual orientation and inclinations (not activities) for gay/bisexuals, and transsexuals who identify as such but who aren't necessarily seeking SRS, the number more than doubles to around 8 to 10 percent.

If you're gay and not sexually active, you're still gay.

This. Conservatives often will do these questions loaded to get the answers they want to report low numbers of LGBT people. Given the hostile atmosphere many gay people live in, it's no wonder that these surveys often have lower numbers than there are in reality. The way you conduct a survey, how you draw the people that are questioned, annonynimity issues, all can play a factor in fixing a survey to suit your agenda.
From personal experience, 8 - 10% seems right to me.
I'd ask though, how high does that percent have to be for a minority group to get equal rights and fair treatment?
Whether the % is 1, 5 or 10, should it matter?
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Old July 18 2014, 06:25 PM   #162
T'Girl
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Re: Slightly pathetic that theres never been LGBT characters in ST

borgboy wrote: View Post
Conservatives
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Old July 18 2014, 09:06 PM   #163
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Re: Slightly pathetic that theres never been LGBT characters in ST

To be honest, I didn't read the whole thread......but Malcolm was originally meant to be gay on ENT but they changed their minds and made him straight.

What about the kiss between Dax and a spouse that was female from a previous host?
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Old July 18 2014, 10:52 PM   #164
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Re: Slightly pathetic that theres never been LGBT characters in ST

Dax: covered upthread.
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Old July 19 2014, 05:20 AM   #165
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Re: Slightly pathetic that theres never been LGBT characters in ST

ReedEnterprise wrote: View Post
To be honest, I didn't read the whole thread......but Malcolm was originally meant to be gay on ENT but they changed their minds and made him straight.
The producers supposedly told Dominic Keating that they intended to make the character gay. Later as the story goes they told him that they had been playing a joke on him, and there had never been any real thought to make Malcolm gay.

Now, what the truth is ...

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