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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > The Next Generation

The Next Generation All Good Things come to an end...but not here.

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Old August 12 2014, 06:03 PM   #121
Ithekro
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Re: StarFleet Officers that are A..h...s

USS Enterprise was not efficient. It was not military in nature. Most of the times they had been in combat they won via luck rather than any sort of military tactical sense. Half the time the ship blunders in to traps only to find a way out of them via scientific or diplomatic skill, rather than combat.

The nature of the mission against the Cardassians is entirely military. Starfleet does not have time for the crew of the Enterprise to get caught in a Cardassian trap and then diplomat their way to victory. What they need is to setup a trap and force the Cardassian's hand and get a resolution to the problem. If that fails they need a quick combat response rather than diplomacy. Picard was known for diplomacy. Riker was known for unorthodox tactics. But here, if they failed with their trap, would need a straight up military solution.
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Old August 12 2014, 10:15 PM   #122
Mojochi
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Re: StarFleet Officers that are A..h...s

Disco wrote: View Post
Commanding officers are not always right and regularly make mistakes. But regardless it was they way that Jellico implemented the changes that made him an asshole. If he engaged the crew he would have more success.
He had all the success he needed. They saved the day. Actually, Once Riker was relieved, the crew cracked that mission right open, & he even brought will back in despite personal embarrassment, because it was the best call

Disco wrote: View Post
The crew were operating well because they were the flagship of the fleet and had already successfully faced numerous foes.
I don't diminish the excellence of the crew. They're called the best for a reason, but it is a ship designed for peace missions, & Jellico outright expects the whole thing to fall apart and lead to war. He also said Picard could very likely end up dead, and it very nearly came to that.

Disco wrote: View Post
What evidence do you have that the changes were necessary and needed to be done quickly?
I know you don't care for this point, but because Jellico said so! You HAVE to assume the captain is telling you the truth, not only because he's in command & that's what being an officer is all about, but because the alternative is that he's LYING to e v e r y o n e !

That flies right in the face of him being a renowned, & decorated captain of excellence as he is presented to us. Frankly, he tells Picard he needs the ship ready for battle, & doesn't have time to befriend the crew & give them a chance to grow to work well with him

If that was untrue, about the ship needing to be made ready for wartime, then why didn't Picard call him on it in private, right there? He's a man of strong words & convictions when he wants to be, but shuts his face right then... because he knows there's some truth to it. They are a ship of peace that can defend itself well in battle, that has been tasked with a mission that will likely end in becoming a ship of war in a hot zone, for a loooong time to come, with a new captain, because Picard is dead behind enemy lines. Picture the 1701-D in Yesterday's Enterprise, Look how differently they run. I know it's alt-timeline, but it's still the same ship & nearly the same crew, & they have to work differently than what we are used to, and Jellico needed something like that, & he needed it in a matter of days
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Old August 13 2014, 07:37 AM   #123
Disco
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Re: StarFleet Officers that are A..h...s

Mojochi wrote: View Post
Disco wrote: View Post
Commanding officers are not always right and regularly make mistakes. But regardless it was they way that Jellico implemented the changes that made him an asshole. If he engaged the crew he would have more success.
He had all the success he needed. They saved the day. Actually, Once Riker was relieved, the crew cracked that mission right open, & he even brought will back in despite personal embarrassment, because it was the best call

Disco wrote: View Post
The crew were operating well because they were the flagship of the fleet and had already successfully faced numerous foes.
I don't diminish the excellence of the crew. They're called the best for a reason, but it is a ship designed for peace missions, & Jellico outright expects the whole thing to fall apart and lead to war. He also said Picard could very likely end up dead, and it very nearly came to that.

Disco wrote: View Post
What evidence do you have that the changes were necessary and needed to be done quickly?
I know you don't care for this point, but because Jellico said so! You HAVE to assume the captain is telling you the truth, not only because he's in command & that's what being an officer is all about, but because the alternative is that he's LYING to e v e r y o n e !

That flies right in the face of him being a renowned, & decorated captain of excellence as he is presented to us. Frankly, he tells Picard he needs the ship ready for battle, & doesn't have time to befriend the crew & give them a chance to grow to work well with him

If that was untrue, about the ship needing to be made ready for wartime, then why didn't Picard call him on it in private, right there? He's a man of strong words & convictions when he wants to be, but shuts his face right then... because he knows there's some truth to it. They are a ship of peace that can defend itself well in battle, that has been tasked with a mission that will likely end in becoming a ship of war in a hot zone, for a loooong time to come, with a new captain, because Picard is dead behind enemy lines. Picture the 1701-D in Yesterday's Enterprise, Look how differently they run. I know it's alt-timeline, but it's still the same ship & nearly the same crew, & they have to work differently than what we are used to, and Jellico needed something like that, & he needed it in a matter of days
Sorry I just can't agree. I don't believe all the changes were neecssary or that they were implemented correctly. I may well be wrong but I am not convinced by your evidence.
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Old August 13 2014, 11:30 AM   #124
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Re: StarFleet Officers that are A..h...s

So you're saying a respected Starfleet captain is a habitual liar because he has an ego problem, rather than accept that he's telling them things which are true and necessary?

Well, that would make him much worse than just a jerk or an asshole. It would mean he's jeopardizing the whole mission, and the safety of the ship & crew, & potentially risking war with Cardassia, just because he wants to be bossy?

That just doesn't make any sense to me. You're basically saying the man is unfit to be a captain, & where is the proof of that? and why did no one ever come out and say that or call him out on it?
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Old August 14 2014, 03:13 PM   #125
Disco
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Re: StarFleet Officers that are A..h...s

No I'm saying that he was mistaken. He approached the issue incorrectly and failed to engage or listen to his crew. He got the results but his methods were poor.
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Old August 14 2014, 03:32 PM   #126
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Re: StarFleet Officers that are A..h...s

Disco wrote: View Post
Commanding officers [snip] regularly make mistakes.
If they actually "regularly" make mistakes they wouldn't be commanding officers at all, or at least not for very long.

Starfleet command certainly wouldn't transfer such an officer onto the flagship to handle a crisis. If Picard had had a reputation of "regularly" making mistakes he wouldn't have been given command of the Enterprise.

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Old August 14 2014, 03:58 PM   #127
Disco
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Re: StarFleet Officers that are A..h...s

Yeah pretty sure I'm losing this debate

I still don't like Jellico though
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Old August 14 2014, 04:19 PM   #128
Mojochi
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Re: StarFleet Officers that are A..h...s

Lol. I get what you're saying. And it's not really the same to say you dislike him compared to him being a bad captain. Disliking him is fine, but saying he's captaining poorly means he's either lying about what he & the mission needs, or he's completely wrong about the whole mission, such that he's demanding unnecessary things. Either way, that is a completely inept commander, & since he's the mission specialist, and is privy to all the specifics, in a way that the others aren't, it stands to reason that he is not totally inept, or false. They put him there knowing he isn't those things
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Old August 15 2014, 05:32 PM   #129
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Re: StarFleet Officers that are A..h...s

Last Redshirt wrote: View Post
Ignoring the obvious answer, which would be, the entire crew of the USS Arrogance in the Federation Smugfleet, because everyone in the TNG universe had varying degrees of assholish arrogant smugness that just slimed all over the screen, I would really have to go with Pulaski and Admiral Nechayev.

Pulaksi because she was just unbearable. Like, even early Picard paled in comparison to her conceited attitude and assholish behavior. I mean, missaying Data's name and repeatedly referring to him as an 'it' is just ridiculous.

Nechayev seemed to exist to only ooze all over the screen with an asshole demeanor. When the DS9 crew was captured by the Changelings and put in a mind-fuck simulation, Nechayev's behavior did not seem out of place at all. I get that there's the whole 'stern commanding officer' behavior, but, there's a whole different level with her.
How Nechayev still had a job when DS9 rolled around is beyond me (I know it wasn't actually her, but even still it implies she is still around). She was terrible, and in the case of her dealings with the characters in the show, always wrong.
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Old August 15 2014, 11:42 PM   #130
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Re: StarFleet Officers that are A..h...s

(Damn, just when I thought I could leave the bunker....)
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