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The Next Generation All Good Things come to an end...but not here.

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Old August 1 2014, 03:29 PM   #76
Marsden
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Re: StarFleet Officers that are A..h...s

jimbotron wrote: View Post
One of his comments was about how a Klingon wouldn't work as a ship's counselor. I'd love to see that in action.
Comming soon, R. Lee Emery as the new ships counselor, Korrahh!

Makarov wrote: View Post
To be fair Riker was just trying to save Picard which is why Jellico got pissed off. Imagine if Kirk was in Riker's position, there's no way he would follow a superior officer's order to let a friend die...
First, I can't imagine Kirk letting himself get into that position.

And back to what I was saying regarding Jellico, lets take it a step further. Riker couldn't cut it as XO, Data could. Is Data a mindless automaton that just follows orders? Then how was he able to adjust to Jellico and succed when Riker couldn't? I really think Data should have keep the XO position because of this, but that would have upset the formula.
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Old August 1 2014, 08:29 PM   #77
Mojochi
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Re: StarFleet Officers that are A..h...s

Disco wrote: View Post
I think where I disagree is your point that what Jellico was doing was needed. the Enterprise was one of the most advanced ships staffed by some of the best crew in the fleet who were battle hardened not just explorers so why would Jellico need to change so many things?

A captain has to lead, manage and direct but he does not need to be authoritarian.

I felt his command style was not required and it made him seem like he was an ass.
You. felt that way, but neither you, nor any of us know what 100% of his requirements were. In fact, I'd suggest that he knew exactly how he needed to do this, and probably put it to his superiors before even taking the assignment. He knew Riker's entire record. He knew the ship layout to the point of knowing exactly where is quarters were, by just hearing it. He knew the bloody warp coil efficiency specifications. He was prepared to a tee. It was the 1701-D crew who weren't. They got caught off guard. I submit that it was probably a foregone conclusion that they would be unavoidably caught off guard. So he had to factor that into how he handled this post. He was never going to be able to do this without being a jerk & he knew it, before he even stepped aboard. Just replacing the beloved Picard made him unwanted.

Makarov wrote: View Post
I don't agree that Jellico was an efficient captain, maybe in other situations but definitely not in Chain of Command. He was unable to avoid conflicts that led to him relieving his own first officer, even though Troi had already warned him. Then after that, he asks everyone on the ship to fly the shuttle before he asks the best man. That's not very efficient.
He had relieved the man of duty, and correctly so. It undermines his authority to go begging after that. So he had an obligation to consider every option first, & then when time was up & it became obvious who the best man was. He put his authority aside & took one in the chin to get Riker in the pilot seat, & Riker gloated like an infantile pig. It's his worst moment of poor behavior in the character's existence. Jellico was given an impossible job that no one actually thought could be pulled off without going to war, least of all himself, & he did it, in spite of some of the crew's expected backlash. If you ask me, he skated masterfully between a ship that didn't want him & a war no one could stop. Riker couldn't have done that in a million years

As for some suggestions for the thread, my votes go to Kozinsky the clueless douche & Hobson the android bigot
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Old August 2 2014, 01:33 AM   #78
The Old Mixer
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Re: StarFleet Officers that are A..h...s

Marsden wrote: View Post
Comming soon, R. Lee Emery as the new ships counselor, Korrahh!
I'd so watch that!
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Old August 4 2014, 06:03 AM   #79
jimbotron
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Re: StarFleet Officers that are A..h...s

Chief Logan is definitely the biggest a-hole. He complains when the Enterprise won't leave orbit, and then he guilt-trips Geordi when the Enterprise does leave orbit. I wish he got a comeuppance aside from having his ego deflated. Maybe a scene where he has the saucer make a few wrong turns and gets lost.
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Old August 4 2014, 06:04 AM   #80
jimbotron
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Re: StarFleet Officers that are A..h...s

The Old Mixer wrote: View Post
Marsden wrote: View Post
Comming soon, R. Lee Emery as the new ships counselor, Korrahh!
I'd so watch that!
A Geico commercial already made a joke out of that.
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Old August 4 2014, 02:20 PM   #81
Marsden
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Re: StarFleet Officers that are A..h...s

jimbotron wrote: View Post
The Old Mixer wrote: View Post
Marsden wrote: View Post
Comming soon, R. Lee Emery as the new ships counselor, Korrahh!
I'd so watch that!
A Geico commercial already made a joke out of that.

He was not a Klingon, though.

That was a great commercial.

commercial wrote:
That’s interesting. You know what makes me sad. You Do! Maybe we should chug on over to mamby pamby land and maybe we can find some self confidence for you – you jack wagon! Tissue? [throws the box out of reach from the client] You cry baby!
Actually, if there was ever a movie/show showing StarFleet's Marines training camp, I could see him as a Andorian Drill Instructor.
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Old August 4 2014, 07:38 PM   #82
Makarov
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Re: StarFleet Officers that are A..h...s

Marsden wrote: View Post
Is Data a mindless automaton that just follows orders? Then how was he able to adjust to Jellico and succed when Riker couldn't? I really think Data should have keep the XO position because of this, but that would have upset the formula.
It's because he's a mindless automaton that he worked so well with Jellico That's exactly what he seemed to want in a first officer & crew.

Jellico could have de-escalated the Riker conflict easily by showing the slightest empathy with the crew that lost their captain instead of blowing up at him. Instead he looked much worse to a crew that already wasn't happy with him. As for Riker not being able to fit in with a crew that didn't want him, he pretty much did in the episode where he is in the exchange program with klingons. Jellico didn't have the same ability to adapt.
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Old August 4 2014, 08:00 PM   #83
jimbotron
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Re: StarFleet Officers that are A..h...s

Deleted scenes of Chain of Command did show Data being hesitant about Jellico's leadership.
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Old August 5 2014, 07:55 AM   #84
Disco
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Re: StarFleet Officers that are A..h...s

Mojochi wrote: View Post
Disco wrote: View Post
I think where I disagree is your point that what Jellico was doing was needed. the Enterprise was one of the most advanced ships staffed by some of the best crew in the fleet who were battle hardened not just explorers so why would Jellico need to change so many things?

A captain has to lead, manage and direct but he does not need to be authoritarian.

I felt his command style was not required and it made him seem like he was an ass.
You. felt that way, but neither you, nor any of us know what 100% of his requirements were. In fact, I'd suggest that he knew exactly how he needed to do this, and probably put it to his superiors before even taking the assignment. He knew Riker's entire record. He knew the ship layout to the point of knowing exactly where is quarters were, by just hearing it. He knew the bloody warp coil efficiency specifications. He was prepared to a tee. It was the 1701-D crew who weren't. They got caught off guard. I submit that it was probably a foregone conclusion that they would be unavoidably caught off guard. So he had to factor that into how he handled this post. He was never going to be able to do this without being a jerk & he knew it, before he even stepped aboard. Just replacing the beloved Picard made him unwanted.

Makarov wrote: View Post
I don't agree that Jellico was an efficient captain, maybe in other situations but definitely not in Chain of Command. He was unable to avoid conflicts that led to him relieving his own first officer, even though Troi had already warned him. Then after that, he asks everyone on the ship to fly the shuttle before he asks the best man. That's not very efficient.
He had relieved the man of duty, and correctly so. It undermines his authority to go begging after that. So he had an obligation to consider every option first, & then when time was up & it became obvious who the best man was. He put his authority aside & took one in the chin to get Riker in the pilot seat, & Riker gloated like an infantile pig. It's his worst moment of poor behavior in the character's existence. Jellico was given an impossible job that no one actually thought could be pulled off without going to war, least of all himself, & he did it, in spite of some of the crew's expected backlash. If you ask me, he skated masterfully between a ship that didn't want him & a war no one could stop. Riker couldn't have done that in a million years

As for some suggestions for the thread, my votes go to Kozinsky the clueless douche & Hobson the android bigot
He was prepared and he was clear about own objective but there was no need for the running of the flagship of the fleet with the best officers who had seen war before to be changed so dramatically and so quickly. Things worked well on the ship and had worked efficiently in battles before so by making so many unneccessary changes all Jellico did was upset the crew without reason and upset work patterns prior to a possible war. He would have been far more successful making small changes and accepting the ability and experience of the crew was sufficient to face the Cardassians.
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Old August 5 2014, 12:10 PM   #85
Ithekro
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Re: StarFleet Officers that are A..h...s

How many of his changes did they keep after Picard came back?
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Old August 5 2014, 01:01 PM   #86
MacLeod
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Re: StarFleet Officers that are A..h...s

Troi in a Starfleet uniform.
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Old August 5 2014, 04:13 PM   #87
jimbotron
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Re: StarFleet Officers that are A..h...s

Weird that with all the talk about removing the fish from the ready room (to appease Stewart, etc.), it returned almost immediately after Chain of Command.
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Old August 5 2014, 11:11 PM   #88
T'Girl
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Re: StarFleet Officers that are A..h...s

Mojochi wrote: View Post
He had relieved the man of duty, and correctly so.
How many Chief Engineers did Picard fire in the first season before settling on LaForge?

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Old August 5 2014, 11:28 PM   #89
Ithekro
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Re: StarFleet Officers that are A..h...s

Why didn't they have a chief engineering in the main cast at the start, or even a regular secondary character for that posting?
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Old August 6 2014, 02:39 AM   #90
Salinga
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Re: StarFleet Officers that are A..h...s

Ithekro wrote: View Post
Why didn't they have a chief engineering in the main cast at the start, or even a regular secondary character for that posting?
Because the 1701-D was considered to be so advanced and flawless, the ship didnt really need one. I think this came from Roddenberry.
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