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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > The Next Generation

The Next Generation All Good Things come to an end...but not here.

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Old July 19 2014, 12:33 AM   #46
Makarov
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Re: StarFleet Officers that are A..h...s

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
At the end of the episode none of the crew seems to thank him, not even last words with Riker, he just gets out of there as quickly as possible.
Why should they thank him? That's not their job. Their job is to do what he says. He's not in this to be thanked...he's there to do a job. And he did.
He was there to do a job and he did it, but he was still a jerk in the process. So the lack of any farewells from the crew indicates that maybe they didn't like the guy. Or they respected what he accomplished but still wanted to stay as far away from him as possible. Good captain but still a pain.
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Old July 20 2014, 05:37 AM   #47
Green Shirt
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Re: StarFleet Officers that are A..h...s

I'm trying to decide if Adm. Mark Jameson was more a fool than an asshole.
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Old July 20 2014, 01:26 PM   #48
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Re: StarFleet Officers that are A..h...s

^"Poorly-acted scenery chewer" fits the bill for me.

I can understand the contrarian love for Jellico somewhat, but I don't buy Nechayev as authentically military. She used to strut around and pose like she expected people to take her picture when she walked into a room.
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Old July 20 2014, 04:39 PM   #49
Mr. Laser Beam
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Re: StarFleet Officers that are A..h...s

Makarov wrote: View Post
He was there to do a job and he did it, but he was still a jerk in the process. So the lack of any farewells from the crew indicates that maybe they didn't like the guy. Or they respected what he accomplished but still wanted to stay as far away from him as possible. Good captain but still a pain.
"If the crew doesn't hate the XO, he's not doing his job." - Saul Tigh

The Old Mixer wrote: View Post
I don't buy Nechayev as authentically military. She used to strut around and pose like she expected people to take her picture when she walked into a room.
You say that like it's a bad thing...
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Last edited by Mr. Laser Beam; July 20 2014 at 09:27 PM.
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Old July 25 2014, 10:37 PM   #50
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Re: StarFleet Officers that are A..h...s

Dukhat wrote: View Post
Watch "The Neutral Zone" again. Every 24th century person in that episode is a complete self-righteous asshole, with the exception of Data.
When I look into the news today and the history of mankind up until today, I share the contempt against 21st century people and what came before. I actually would be much less diplomatic than Picard & Co against them.

Culturally mankind is to 99% still "crap" and at least mentally living in caves (even if they handle a modern smartphone they are still cavemen by heart). The tendency to declare narcissism and psychopathy as a sign of a strong character (because this mindset enables best to fight for personal interests against other interests) is still too strong in modern culture.

If I would live in the 24th century, I would look at todays culture (and the human beeings representing it) in the same negative way, probably even much more negative than the fictual characters of TNG.
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Old July 25 2014, 10:52 PM   #51
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Re: StarFleet Officers that are A..h...s

^ Whatever you may think of people like Offenhouse, or anyone who lived in the 20th and 21st centuries, we should always treat people with some form of respect. You can treat people civilly even if you don't agree with their positions or actions. Nothing justifies arrogance and condescension.

Picard, by acting the way he did towards those people, showed that he is no better than he accused them of being.
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Old July 26 2014, 12:24 AM   #52
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Re: StarFleet Officers that are A..h...s

I hated the way the Enterprise crew was depicted in season 1.

In Lonely Among Us, there was clearly someone killing members of the crew, and Picard/Riker immediately dismiss the crew, saying it had to be an alien, though figured the two alien races onboard probably wouldn't have done it. Why so quick to dismiss ONE THOUSAND possible suspects, some of whom aren't even Starfleet officers?

Later in The Neutral Zone, Offenhouse is able to go where he pleases (including the bridge), and throws that fact back at Picard. Picard's response is that people in the 24th century don't need security like that because they know not to go where they aren't permitted. Puh-lease.

In another one of the episodes, Riker was bewildered by the idea of war, saying he had once heard of it, or something. The naivety the crew was forced to spew out was painful in the early season.
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Old July 26 2014, 12:59 AM   #53
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Re: StarFleet Officers that are A..h...s

^^
I also hated the way the crew acted in other seasons toward Ensign Ro and Ensign Barclay....
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Old July 26 2014, 01:04 AM   #54
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Re: StarFleet Officers that are A..h...s

^ I didn't particuarly hate the way they treated Ro, because of, well, her getting 8 people killed on an away mission and all that. She was rude and obnoxious towards everyone. And as a junior officer, she kind of needed to be put in her place.

Barclay, OTOH, was wide-eyed and innocent, and clearly did not deserve the treatment he got.
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Old July 27 2014, 06:39 AM   #55
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Re: StarFleet Officers that are A..h...s

Barclay especially didn't deserve to get mocked by Wesley who would have been a nobody on that ship if Picard hadn't had a secret crush on his mom and felt guilty for sending his dad to his death
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Old July 29 2014, 01:24 PM   #56
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Re: StarFleet Officers that are A..h...s

Jellico was an asshole. No man management skills, authoritarian leadership, no attempt to work with the crew or earn their respect. I've never served in the military but surely military officers still listen to their subordinates views and suggestions and don't come into post and change everything?
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Old July 29 2014, 01:28 PM   #57
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Re: StarFleet Officers that are A..h...s

trekshark wrote: View Post
Barclay especially didn't deserve to get mocked by Wesley who would have been a nobody on that ship if Picard hadn't had a secret crush on his mom and felt guilty for sending his dad to his death
Agreed...
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Old July 29 2014, 01:43 PM   #58
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Re: StarFleet Officers that are A..h...s

Disco wrote: View Post
Jellico was an asshole. No man management skills, authoritarian leadership, no attempt to work with the crew or earn their respect. I've never served in the military but surely military officers still listen to their subordinates views and suggestions and don't come into post and change everything?
I don't agree. Jellico knew exactly what he was doing, he was an expert at dealing with Cardassians, and he simply DID NOT HAVE TIME to get to be the crew's friend.

Let me put it another way: Jellico may actually have been an ass, but if he was, he was the right kind; he was entitled to be one. He used it to his advantage. It made him a capable and efficient commander. He was not rude or vindictive - yes, he was authoritarian, but that's what a captain is SUPPOSED to be! Ro, on the other hand, was a jackass simply because it was her personality. I am not being sexist here - I'll happily sing the praises of, say, Admiral Nechayev. But there we are.

I stand by my suspicion that the reason people don't like Jellico is simply because he's an outsider. They dislike him because he isn't Picard. (In the same way that, for example, on Firefly the Alliance *seems* like some kind of fascist dictatorship, even though they aren't, just because they aren't Malcolm and his merry bunch of rebels.) Everyone's used to Picard, who is so open and personable with the crew. Well, not everyone's like that. Given time, Jellico might have bonded with his people, but there was a situation brewing with the Cardassians. He had to set things right, and do it fast. His actions after taking command may have seemed harsh, but they were needed.

Although it would definitely have helped if we had seen what the environment on the Cairo was like. People who were used to serving under Jellico also should have gotten a voice. Pity there wasn't time.

In the end: Jellico does not have to earn the crew's respect; they have to earn his. That's what military discipline is all about.
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Old July 29 2014, 02:25 PM   #59
Richard Baker
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Re: StarFleet Officers that are A..h...s

Jellico served as a dramatic contrast to Picard- a different style of command. It was actually refreshing to see someone in the center chair who commanded a ship in a more military style (Picard in 'Yesterday's Enterprise' was similar in some aspects).
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Old July 29 2014, 02:58 PM   #60
Disco
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Re: StarFleet Officers that are A..h...s

I think where I disagree is your point that what Jellico was doing was needed. the Enterprise was one of the most advanced ships staffed by some of the best crew in the fleet who were battle hardened not just explorers so why would Jellico need to change so many things?

A captain has to lead, manage and direct but he does not need to be authoritarian.

I felt his command style was not required and it made him seem like he was an ass.
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